Talking To Teens: Expert Tips for Parenting Teenagers

Andy: All right. I listened to recently, to an episode that you guys had about teenagers and kind of making predictions about what your kids would be doing when they were teenagers. And it was funny to listen to you guys, kind of thinking about your kids, listening to these podcasts years from now, and going back, and it's almost like a record of their lives from your perspective in this really interesting way. But there's something fun about being able to go back and listen to these hundreds of podcast episodes that you guys have created and this kind of narrative that exists and going back to kind of what started it all, which was this T-shirt. I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about the One Bad Mother T-shirt and what kind of propelled that into existence and was the impetus for this whole thing?

Biz: Yes. So I had been living in Brooklyn in New York and I had just had our daughter, Katie Bell. And I definitely, I definitely was having a moment of before and after motherhood moments where I thought I was pretty cool then. I did sketch comedy, I went to clubs, I lived in Brooklyn.

Andy: And you're a single person in New York.

Biz: Yeah, single. But even when I was married, we were cool. We'd do stuff. And then I had my daughter and I was like, "I am not cool." In fact, we had gone to go see Stephen Colbert, and the warmup, the guy who warms up the crowd was asking people what they did. And they asked my husband first and he had this total answer ready for them. And then I had this panic attack, they're going to ask me, and I don't know what to say, because, I'm sort of on maternity leave. Do I say I'm a mom? Oh my God! Feels suddenly so uncool to say. And I was really feeling like my only options out there were soccer mom or these sort of crazy mom labels that didn't feel cool. And so, my husband made me a T-shirt that was just black V-neck T-shirt with these yellow letters going across it, that said, "One Bad Mother," and I suddenly felt cool about being a mom a little bit. It didn't fix all my problems.

Biz: I've spent the last eight years still not settled in like the identity crisis I had, but the T-shirt really helped. And I just kind of thought, well, this makes me feel cool being on a subway with a kid, I feel like nothing else out there about parenting does that. So how do I make something that makes parents still feel cool about being who they are in the same way. That the T-shirts sort of stemmed the whole idea.

Andy: So I love that so much. And I read through your book, which is hilarious, and it's such a blast to read. And there's one thing in here on page 84 that really hit me and felt like it summed up that same thing as what you were talking about with the T-shirt. And it says, "Can we stop talking about trying to get back to our old selves? There's nothing like pining for our pre-kid bodies, pre-kid social lives or pre-kid creativity to make us feel depressed about parenthood. Think about it. Why would you want to go back to the person you were before? You've been there before? You're past that now. All that stuff from before, that's part of you, that's in you only now thanks to your children you're better, wiser and tougher. You're amazing. Let's move forward."

Andy: That was my favorite piece from the book for some reason. And it's something that I have been thinking about for awhile. This idea that parents need to find their inner badass a little bit, and especially, because what we deal with here as teenagers and I'm a researcher. So I come at all this from like a scientific perspective and I'm struggling with how do I put this into words? But a lot of the parents that I work with, it's like, well, what I want to tell you is that you need to just be a little more of a badass and I didn't quite have the words for it until I found your podcast and your book. So I was wondering if we could talk about that a little more.

Biz: Yeah. I kind of want to jump right in and say, I hear you say, when you're dealing with teens, you have to find your inner bad-ass. But I think what I struggle with is, by the time my kids are going to be teenagers, which with my oldest is not too far off, I feel so-

Andy: Yeah, she's eight now?

Biz: Yeah, she's eight. I feel so beaten down by all the baby and toddler and sort of preschool and elementary years are all about, we were just talking on the show about you want to give your kids independence, but there's a stage where they just developmentally don't understand independence. And then by the time you're ready to start letting them do the independence you want them to do it. You're so habitually trained to say, "Put on a coat for God's sakes." I don't understand how, by the time you have teenagers, I could still feel cool because I would just be like, I'm so tired. Are they sleeping? I'm so happy. I'm so tired. I feel like I've spent the last X amount of years trying to let them be independent while at the same time, help them figure out how not to be uncomfortable in the world. That's a lot. How's it working out for you? That's a lot for me to think about.

Andy: But, isn't that life Biz, that it's every phase is, has you feeling like you just had it figured out a second ago and now this new wrench just got thrown in? And God darn it. And I feel like that kind of is parenting and especially kind of teenage years here. So I thought it was interesting that sometimes something external can really change how we feel internally. And I love this image of you finding this T-shirt, that then solidified this kind of identity for you or something, or made it okay to be a mom and to be kind of like your own version of it. There's another thing in your book that was a cool about being you. I think it's just such a healthy message that finding your inner badass needs to come from a place of empowerment and confidence.

Andy: And so, one of the things that you guys do consistently on the podcast and all throughout the book is recognize when parents are doing a great job and kind of give them prompts about, you know those day-to-day things that we do every day? You got a great idea in your book about, hey, instead of making a to-do list today, make a did-it list.

Biz: Yeah. Yeah. Then we're wondering at the end of the day, why we're so tired and why we didn't get anything done. And it's like, well, you did a million other things that we just take for granted is not countable is not worthy of being counted when remembering the ticket, the groceries, remembering all the appointments, remember getting your kids to all the events they've got to get to. But we don't put that on the to-do list that we're remembering all those things and that we're balancing all those things. And then we beat ourselves up for not calling the cable company or not making that doctor's appointment for ourselves when instead we should be like, "Oh man, nailed it. I nailed all this stuff today." And eventually I'll go get a health check for myself.

Andy: Right? Because if you have a to-do list and then stuff comes up during the day, then there's an aspect of it feeling like you failed to get this stuff done.

Biz: We just don't put most of it on the list. That's just it. The things that make it to the list are sort of really the C-level things that have to get done, because everything else we're just doing so much of. We just don't write it down.

Andy: Because we're not, not going to feed the kids. It's just, I don't have to write that down. I got that.

Biz: Yeah. Somebody's going to pick them up, right?

Andy: Check. In fact, you are so competent at these things that you don't even have to write it down.

Biz: That's right.

Andy: That is, you have graduated from the to-do list.

Biz: Yeah, that's why I feel like Theresa and I are constantly saying, people should just be high-fiving each other and target or wherever all the time. I'll watch, I'll be in the car and I'll see a parent with the kid and all the groceries. And I just think, I don't know why, but to me, that image is always like, that was the hardest thing that person had to do today. Good job. You've got all the stuff-

Andy: You go mom.

Biz: And you did it with somebody with you, and you did it and it's not what you wanted to do at all today. Good job. No one's going to the cocktail parties or hanging out with their friends and saying, "You know what I did today? I went to the store and I got everything on my list. I didn't forget everything. And I, I actually had my wallet with me. That was a big plus. I didn't accidentally steal something because I forgot it was in the bottom of the car." That whole list. Everybody would be like, "You're the worst? Why are you talking about this?"

Andy: Right. My kid did not throw a tantrum in any of the aisles. I just want to throw that out there.

Biz: Yeah. But when I think about teens, I do have this hilarious image of teens and I know mine are going to be the worst. That everybody can go back and listen to this later and be, yeah, you like the idea of the selling team, slamming a door in your face and calling you the worst, you think that's going to be a lot of fun? But yeah. It's the same thing where I was like, I'm going to love newborns. I hated newborns. Just got to be.

Andy: Oh, really?

Biz: I was not a good, I mean, I was fine. Everybody's alive. And I love my children and stuff, but I didn't naturally take to newborns into little babies. I'm better with slightly older kids. Everybody's got their thing I think. But that's just it, is that the pressure is you're supposed to enjoy all the parts of it. And that I just think that's one of the biggest myths that we have to deal with is that I think you can be happy with your choices about having a kid in your house and at the same time, not like it all the time and that they can exist at the same time. And I think that's sort of the heart of what we try and get at, at the show is that you get to be both. You get to like it and not like it at the same time. And it's okay.

Andy: Yeah. That is what it is. And it's like that you don't feel apologetic about anything, right? Or because you're doing the best you can and you don't need to feel bad, right? There's so many ways that parents just beat themselves up. I think-

Biz: We do. How many times have you started a conversation, "I love my kids, but..."? Or you know what it's like? Of course, you love your kids. We shouldn't even have to apologize. We make a huge list of things before we talk about what's bothering us. I'm so tired or, you know what? I haven't gotten enough sleep. But the assumption should be, everybody's doing their best and loves their kids and didn't marry a jerk. And we're all trying our best. Now, it's okay to also say, you're not having a good time with assuming that you're a monster. And, one of the things we talk about is just how easy it is to feel like somebody is doing it at you. If they're doing really well at something that somehow it's a reflection that you're not doing a good job, or if they're doing a bad job, but it's reflection that you are the best and they're a monster.

Biz: And it's not either of those, even though that's a voice that's easy to get stuck in your head. And so as listeners, we have to be, it's okay for you to say that you just want to go out for milk and maybe not come back right now. I know that doesn't mean you're actually going to do it. It's okay.

Andy: There is a fantastic scene in the movie Bridesmaids, where she goes to a party at her arch-rival's house and she just wants to hate the whole thing. And she pulls up, "Ooh, these cute little things that she's got set up... And okay, fine. I'll have some lemonade," and then takes a sip of the lemonade. And then she's just like, "Oh, that is so good." This is like, just look on her face, like I just hate you so much and love you at the same time, because wow, that's just incredible lemonade. It really is what it made me think about when I read this part of your book about doing it at you. And she didn't throw this big party, because she hates you," right? It's to be nice to the girl who's getting married. We just make everything about us and it's hard not to, but we do, right? We feel like the delicious cake that we ate at the party that the mom baked herself, that we don't have time to bake a cake ourself. And so what, well, you got to do that lady.

Biz: Yeah, it's just cake. Cake is delicious. It's just cake.

Andy: Maybe she'll enjoy baking cake. Yeah.

Biz: Enjoy the cake guys. It's just cake, but it's really hard again, you're so tired man. And the thing is, is that parenting can be super-isolating. It's really easy to get wrapped up in the idea that all the small stuff, all your day-to-day stuff can feel really big and we're all struggling with stuff. And so when you then go on a Facebook or go out in the world, it's really easy for the guilt to be triggered or to feel judged or to be judgy. Or that's just like, I think it's like a really natural thing that we do. So we shouldn't beat ourselves up about that either. But we also should have that extra voice that says, "It's just cake it's okay." And whatever that applies to apply it. Because we just can't beat ourselves up for those very natural feelings. And we also have to try and be mindful, but those feelings probably aren't real and it never stops. Kids are just always there aren't they?

Andy: And you know, we can just remind ourselves, Hey, I look really good on Instagram too.

Biz: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You can curate your life however you want out in the world guys?

Andy: Yeah. Thinking about social media brings up this topic that I am really interested in. I mean, we kind of just touched on it a second ago, but I just had my first memoirist on the podcast recently. And it was really, he's a father who was really interesting to talk to him about the process of making his family life, public knowledge in this book. And because there's really personal stuff in there about his struggles with his marriage and his kids, and drugs, and vandalism and all this stuff that they get kind of wrapped up in. And I hadn't really thought about it before I talked to him about it, but this conversation that he had to have with his family and going through drafts of the manuscript. And it makes me wonder about this podcast that you guys do a lot of times you talk about very personal things from within your family, and you guys have a kind of cheeky, little like intro to the podcast that kind of is a disclaimer, a little bit.

Andy: I was interested in just if there's other conversations that you've had with your family or what else you've done to sort of address that?

Biz: I think early on we had the initial conversation, Theresa, my cohost and I about do we change our kids' names? And at the time we both just had one kid and Theresa's husband had been doing a podcast and a show for years and had already said their child's name. So it felt like you couldn't just suddenly go on and be like, "But no we're talk..." I mean, stuff was already out there before we started our show. And so, that was so funny, we were hanging out last week. We were in Chicago having done a live show and we started talking about it again and literally couldn't remember why we had made that choice. And then we had to kind of walk through it and go, oh yeah, because as the kids get older and as issues change for each of us, we do start to think, "How long do we want to do this? When is there stuff we just don't want to talk about?"

Biz: And I think we've always tried to keep the show about how we as the parents are wrestling with sort of the emotional effects and the identity effects of having kids. And so for example, if we're talking about something like whining, or if we talk about us yelling, we just did one about yelling or-

Andy: I love that episode.

Biz: Yeah. We've done, all these sorts of conversations, even though we're going to briefly talk about sort of what our kids are doing so that you know what's happening in our house. It's really about us. And why is this bothering us? Most of the time, the answer is there's actually nothing wrong with our kids. It's all us.

Andy: Sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Biz: Most of the time that's the answer. And we've shared stuff about ourselves that I am like, "Huh, I'm fine with that. I wonder if my kids will be fine with that later." And then in terms of our partners, to speak for myself, my husband, Stefan, usually if it's going to involve him, I'll check with him first, before we go on, there are a few things I've taken out, post recording where I'm like, you know what? I can still have the conversation without saying X, Y, or Z like I said in the show, I can take that out.

Andy: Oh, I see. It doesn't lose whatever I was trying to get across if it just stick out a little bit.

Biz: The main thing is, for example, we did a show on resentment, partner resentment, right? How easy it is for that resentment to build up. And you have to remind yourself that you didn't marry a jerk and they didn't marry a jerk either, which is really actually very hard to remember sometimes. I was able to have that conversation without saying, yeah, we actually have a big thing about not wanting to beat our partners up. There are plenty of places on the Internet and out in the world for you to be like, "Bad partner, is the biggest man baby or what..." I cannot stand man baby, I cannot stand it, because you know what? Most of the time people are doing the best they can too. And like I said, you didn't marry a jerk for the most part. Some people did for the most part.

Biz: I think I can get away with the conversation without also being cruel to my partner. So, that sort of thing we have to be really mindful of. And again, we just try and keep it about ourselves. That said, I don't know how my kids are going to react to this later. I mean, I hope they see it as sort of a love letter to them. And I hope one day they think when they would even be remotely interested in listening to it, I hope that they would say, "Oh, okay. My mom really loved me." And that's what I hope, who knows? Maybe there'll be like, "Screw you. Why would you do this to me?" I don't know. I don't know.