Talking To Teens: Expert Tips for Parenting Teenagers

Introduction to Talking to Teens
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Andy Earle: You're listening to Talking to Teens, where we speak with leading experts from a variety of disciplines about the art and science of parenting teenagers. I'm your host, Andy Earle.

We're talking today about how to speak more effectively when you're having conversations with your teenager.

Often we spend a lot of time thinking about what we're going to say, how we're going to respond to certain things, how we might start the conversation.

This is all the content of what we're saying.

Our delivery of the information is also really important.

We could say the same exact words, but speak in a way that has a lot more impact.

And today's episode is going to help us do just that.

Guest Introduction: Michael Chad Hoeppner
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Andy Earle: Our guest today is Michael Chad Hoeppner.

He is a speaking expert who coaches presidential candidates, fortune 500 CEOs, UN dignitaries, and entrepreneurs everywhere on how to speak more effectively.

And he's the author of the new book, Don't Say Um.

Michael, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Really excited to have you here.

Michael Hoeppner: My pleasure. Thank you.

Andy Earle: So, I've been reading through your book on how to not say, um. But actually you start out the book talking about how it's not actually about how to not say, um, so what's going on there?

Why is this the topic of the book, but not the topic of the book? And how did that come to be?

The Trick Behind 'Don't Say Um'
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Michael Hoeppner: Yeah, the title is a trick. It's a trick that I hope causes people to pick up the book because everyone wants to learn how to avoid saying um. But as your audience is going to know only too well, don't is not a very useful word, particularly in parenting.

As soon as you say to your kid, don't do that, of course, their attention goes right to that thing. It's the same in trying to improve as a communicator. If you actually want to get better at removing useless words in our vocabulary, like, kinda, and sorta, the way to do that is not to fixate on the problem, but to focus on all the other words that are useful, necessary, and accurate. And get better at what I call linguistic precision.

This is also good for parenting. Focus on the good stuff as opposed to the bad.

Focusing on Positive Communication
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Andy Earle: That is such a metaphor for how things play out with our kids. We get so focused on what they're doing that we don't want them to do or the things that bother us or the things that are not serving them or the things that they need to fix. Focusing more on encouraging the positive behaviors or picking out the things that they are doing well.

Michael Hoeppner: I would add to that. In fact, that yes, this is a mindset of making positive choices, but the book, what I really dream about with this book is that it gives people very concrete, very tangible things that they can do that affects behavior.

So I'm not even talking about, you know, focus on positive things or think about your message.

Practical Exercises for Effective Speaking
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Michael Hoeppner: I actually have people in the book walk their fingers across a surface like a table or a desk and use the activity of their fingers moving to inspire them to choose each and every single word that comes out of their mouth.

Now, if you happen to take a glance at this on the visual, of course, you just saw me walking my fingers. But in the book, what I actually give people a tool to do is to use that very thing, their hands, to help them learn how to choose words more effectively. That is how you get rid of words like, kinda, and sorta.

Andy Earle: Interesting. There is a Teenage kid that you talk about in the book who feels awkward in social situations with friends. And you mentioned that in working with a kid like this, you would not focus on the awkwardness, why they feel awkward, when did they start feeling awkward, what makes them feel awkward.

Why not? Wouldn't that be the main thing to focus on?

Michael Hoeppner: Well, let's do a thought experiment quickly. Okay, everyone listening to this. I'm going to give you some instructions and I simply want you to for a moment. Think about do I feel more or less the way that he's asking me to feel. Are you ready? Don't be stressed.

Don't be anxious. Don't be nervous. Don't be preoccupied. All of these feelings, we're always fixating on these feelings. And I'm not necessarily saying feelings are a bad subject by themselves. They're a very important subject in our lives. I'm simply saying how you feel is not the most relevant thing to communicating well.

Communicating well is about using your voice and your body to take ideas that are inside your brain and get them out into the world so they can reach and affect somebody else. How you feel in a given moment is not necessarily the most crucial thing. Rather, what are you doing? The book is jam packed full of tools for how to have better posture, how to use vocal variety, how to have eye contact, things like this to change behavior.

The Importance of Delivery in Communication
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Andy Earle: I love that you talk about the difference between content and delivery in the book. So much of what we get questions about from parents is, how do I respond to this? What do I say about this? What if my kid does this? It's a lot of focus on the content, which is great and definitely helpful.

But the delivery is also really important. That's what I thought was so cool about your book. There's so many practical exercises and ideas on regardless of what you're saying. How do you say it in a way that might be a bit more effective?

Michael Hoeppner: Thank you for bringing delivery up because it's absolutely essential in this conversation. I'll give you a couple of concepts to think about. How you say things to your kids in terms of delivery is going to really determine if they actually pay attention or not. Now, I'm dating myself a little bit by this reference, but we all remember the Charlie Brown teacher voice or the adult voice.

In the Charlie Brown cartoons, or at least you do if you're of my parenting generation, and that sounds like that's what the adult sound is. So if you sound like that, when you're talking to your kids, you sound the exact same way that you always do. Your vocal variety is actually communicating to them:

"Lecture. Here comes a boring lecture." So how we deliver things determines if they pay attention or not. But I will go even a layer deeper, which is in the book I talk about this relationship between content and delivery and that it exists in a virtuous cycle. Content is the words that you choose, your vocabulary.

Delivery is how you say those words. We all think as parents that we have to know all of our content, and be prepared for what we're going to tell our kids in a tricky situation. But that's impossible. How could we ever be prepared for every single bizarre, crazy situation our kids throw at us?

There's no way. So instead, what can we do? Improve our delivery. Improve our ability to breathe. To enunciate. To speak at a pace in which you can actually choose your words. Use vocal variety to make every single thing you say land with more impact. As you invest in those muscles and build those abilities, it actually improves the content too.

And most important of all, it can inspire your kids. If your kids see you work to get better at anything, the inspirational model you set is worth all kinds of lectures telling them that they should do something different. So if you know, parents out there, that you could be better at speaking, as opposed to trying to help your kids get better at speaking, use this book and get better yourself.

They might see that and challenge themselves to do the same thing.

Andy Earle: I think that is so important. We spend so much time telling our kids they need to work on their homework, study their lines for their play, or practice their drills for whatever sport they're working on. They need to improve themselves and get better.

But are we modeling that ourselves? What are we working on about ourselves? How are we learning, improving, and growing? This book is a great way to do some of that. I want to hit on an idea that I thought was really important with the book, which was what does great communication look like?

Three Surprises About Great Communication
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Michael Hoeppner: In the chapter you're referencing, I share three surprises about great communication. The first surprise is that it comes from being focused on the other person. Number two, it comes from using more of ourselves, not less. And then number three is you don't need to feel confident in order to project confidence.

So, first, communication is about being focused on the other person. That sounds so obvious, but a lot of time we get hung up on ourselves.

What am I saying? How am I using my hands? Do I sound good? As opposed to reaching the other person. A quick thought experiment on this. If you were helping a lost tourist, how would your eye contact be? Great. Because you'd have to see, are they digesting what I'm saying or not? You would look at them.

Number two, it comes from using more of ourselves, not less. All too often we think we should be professional and authoritative with our communication. Or with our kids, set a serious example and show them that we're serious about what we're saying. But in real life, we use all of ourselves to achieve our communication goal.

When I say more, I mean more vocal variety. More gestural freedom and ease, probably more breath. That's how we communicate when we're at our best. And then number three, you do not need to feel confident in order to project confidence. But we could even substitute, you do not have to feel blank.

Anything to project that same thing. Meaning how you feel is not the most material thing. It is what you're doing and that is nowhere more important than what you're doing with your kids.

Andy Earle: It also makes me think about how these play into each other where it doesn't necessarily matter how confident you are, or how good you feel or excited you are about the topic. But also communicating more authentically or fully could be sharing that or expressing that this is something I'm not really sure how to talk about.

I feel nervous about having this conversation with you, but I thought it would be something really important to dive into. So I want to talk about it anyways. These three concepts sort of link together in a cool way.

Michael Hoeppner: You know that I'm so glad you said that I've actually never heard that piece of feedback in my entire career.

And I've been at this for 15 years. No, truly. Because what you're suggesting is those same values about how you deliver as a communicator, could influence your ability to have brave conversations with your kids. In other words, to be comfortable with being uncomfortable or tolerate some of that murky area to have these braver conversations.

Yes. Thumbs up to everything you just said. Thank you.

Exercises to Improve Articulation
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Andy Earle: We usually when we tell people to put a cork in it, we're meaning that they should stop talking. But you have a talk in the book about actually putting a cork in your mouth as a exercise to work on your articulation, I guess, or can you walk me through that?

Michael Hoeppner: Parents, if you read this book, it will help your communication. And if you can get your kids to read it too, it will help their communication also.

And the drill that you just mentioned, I can take no credit for. Every other drill in the book, walking your fingers, stacking Lego blocks, throwing wiffle balls, putting on a paper crown, standing on the book, all of them are things that I created working with professionals for the last 15-20 years or so. But this one I can take no credit for because it actually goes all the way back to the ancient Greeks and an orator named Demosthenes.

And the idea here is that you use an impediment to make your speech stronger. So the cork, all you do is you slice a bit of a wine cork and you put it in between your teeth on the side of your mouth, biting down on that cork. Your job is to speak past the impediment to make sure that your speech is clear.

Even with the impediment in between your teeth. If you happen to be looking at this on video, I will demonstrate it visually so you can see what it looks like. And if you're just listening to the audio, you might notice that my speech is slightly altered, but hopefully you also hear that I'm working to be understood.

Now I'll take it out, even with the impediment. This has a bunch of great outputs. One, you open your mouth more. You have to. Two, it automatically forces you to slow your speech a bit, so it modulates your pace. Three, it supercharges your enunciation.

And these are just some of the most immediate effects. There's a bunch of knock on effects as well. So it's a great exercise and it's particularly a great exercise for your kids if they have some challenges enunciating or mumbling. In the book, in this chapter, there's a QR code that shows a video of my kid when he was four using a magnetile.

Parents, if you know what a magnetile is, you're probably laughing and smiling right now. Using a magnetile. As a substitute for the cork, actually talking past that toy tile. So you can take a look at that too.

Andy Earle: You've been subjecting your kids to these exercises for their whole lives.

Michael Hoeppner: Cruel dad, I know. Cruelty. But it's for their own good, and it's for my good too, because the better they get at talking, the interchange, the relationship gets stronger, and hopefully, even though this is my field, I'm trying to do the same thing for them, demonstrate being better at communicating each day in some small way than I was, hopefully, the previous day.

Andy Earle: You were talking earlier about when we go into lecture mode and our kids tune out because they can tell we're giving a lecture. As a parent you really want to make sure that they get it when you're telling them something or trying to impart a lesson.

You're not sure if they're really getting it and you keep trying to explain it a different way and making sure that they get it. Meanwhile, they're tuning out. Being able to punch the end of your thought, or put the period on the end of the sentence, is really important skill.

You have some cool ideas in the book on how to improve that. What does that look like and why is that so hard to do?

Michael Hoeppner: Take a ball. Grab any ball around you. A racquetball, a tennis ball.

Not a golf ball, because you're going to have to throw it so it could break something. So a soft enough ball, you're not going to break something near you. Practice saying an idea, a single idea. At the end of that thought, on the final word, throw the ball.

You can't keep speaking after that, by the way. So you're punctuating the very end of your idea. What this does is it forces you to complete the thought. and stop talking. So both the vocal energy of your idea is stronger because of that physical gesture, that physical emphasis of the throw, but also you have to shut up.

As parents, all too often we don't do that thing. It forces you to do that. So this is a great exercise, by the way, not just for sharing ideas with your kids, but if you have a big presentation to give, a crucial meeting, you're in some sort of a pitch for something, this is a great tool to build the ability to say strong declarative statements and then be quiet.

Andy Earle: It goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning, too, with the don't say um idea. So often it feels like we're filling that empty space. We don't have more to say about the idea, but we just, um, uh, you understand what I'm saying? We trail off and we're filling the space with these little filler words because we are afraid of the silence or of just hitting the point and stopping. Why is that so difficult?

Michael Hoeppner: Yeah. As opposed to answering the question of why is it so difficult, instead, I want to pose this challenge to everybody listening. What could unlock if you got better at that? What could be better in your life if you learned how?

Now, here's a radical idea. As opposed to saying the same thing to your kid three, four, seven, ten times in a row because you've not seen acknowledgement from them that they actually understood. So you think, I'll just repeat myself more times with worse and worse delivery, which is going to make it more likely that they tune out.

What if you said it once, but with profoundly skilled delivery, and then were quiet. Your kid might say something back. In that silence, you might actually garner some kind of input or response.

Try it. One thought. Not three or five or seventeen. One. Your task is to say that one idea with as much vocal variety and inflection as you need to to make that one idea really land with impact. And at the end, stop talking. They might say something back.

Andy Earle: And that idea you just mentioned, the vocal variety, also goes back to the Charlie Brown and the adult voices and the way that we say things in a sort of monotone way, or we go into lecture mode and causes our kids to stop listening. How do we increase the vocal variety or, make sure that we're saying something in a way that feels more interesting or doesn't trigger that tune out response?

The Power of Vocal Variety
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Michael Hoeppner: We have to start by being rigorous, okay? This is what does not work when it comes to vocal variety. Be passionate. Show some energy. Have enthusiasm. Be yourself. No. What works is actually bringing a real scientist mindset to this and learning the skill and improving. So, vocal variety is not something I invented.

People have used vocal variety as long as we've been people, but I did invent this naming system that readers in the book learn. To make it five Ps and therefore alliterative and hopefully easy to remember. So the five Ps are pace, pitch, pause, power, and placement. And I'll say this five again so you, you hear each.

Pace is speed. That's fast, And slow. Pitch is high or low on a musical clef. Pause is just what it sounds like. Silence. Power is volume, loud and quiet. Placement is the only one you might not know right away. Placement means where does the sound amplify in your body. Where is it placed in your body?

If your voice gets quite nasal, or you have a friend with a really nasal voice, the sound waves are primarily amplifying in the nasal area of your face. The sound is placed in the nose. These five Ps work together to help people understand both our content and our delivery, how we feel about our content.

If you're trying to use more vocal variety, so you don't lapse into monotone, the first place to start is to recognize these five Ps and then use kinesthetic tools to change that. The one I mentioned in the book that I think is the most useful right out of the gate for people, and that's the one I teach in the chapter on vocal variety, is something called silent storytelling.

And the way this works is kind of like the name of the drill sounds. You just talk, but you don't get to use sound. So think of it like lip syncing. You get to use your hands. You get to be as expressive as you want to with your face, and you get to overdo it with your enunciation so that someone who is reading your lips would know what you're saying, but you don't get to make sound with your vocal cords.

It has to be silent. So this is not charades, okay? You're not acting things out. You're just speaking more expressively, physically. You do it for a couple minutes and then, here's the miracle: add sound back into the equation. But here's the key. You may not let everything else lapse. So, you can't let your enunciation fall apart and your gestures fall apart.

You still have to be that physically expressive and what you will see is the voice has much more life and vitality because our voice is our body. The two are connected and when you use your body in a more physically expressive way, the voice becomes more expressive, too.

Andy Earle: I love that. There are so many great exercises in the book. There are pages that you rip out of the book and cut up and fold in different ways to do different exercises. You actually stand on the book at one point and there are footprints in the book for you to stand on. So much packed into this book. Science, stories, examples, exercises.

Conclusion and Further Resources
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Andy Earle: I highly encourage people to check out a copy. Michael, thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing all of this excellent wisdom with us. It's been enlightening, inspiring, and fun.

Michael Hoeppner: Thank you so much for the great work and the help that you're giving parents out there, like me. So thank you.

Andy Earle: Can you talk a little bit, you mentioned the website, dontsayum.com. Where else should we send people to find out more about you, about what you're doing and about the book?

Michael Hoeppner: For sure. So, three places. There's Don't say um.com about the book. You can also go to Michael Chad Hoeppner.com.

That's me, michaelchadhoeppner.com, and you can also find out more about the company I founded in 2010. The company is gk training.com, and we do lots of corporate institutional training. GK training.com.

Andy Earle: I hope people will go check it out and learn more and pick up a copy of the book.

We're here today with Michael Chad Hoeppner talking about how to speak more effectively when we're talking with our teenagers, and we're not done yet. Here's a look at what's coming up in the second half of the show.

Michael Hoeppner: It's not an exaggeration to say that we are all communication athletes. We are communication instruments. We are literally a body that creates sound and the sound amplifies and gets altered. So everyone listening, you're closer to a clarinet than you are a computer. Here's the radical idea. That's not your voice. You don't have a voice. Your voice is something that you create in a fluid and new and organic way anytime you open your mouth.

Michael Hoeppner: It can get so bad that people have a lot of shame and even self loathing because they have these deeply painful beliefs about their ability to speak in high consequence situations. Anchor your attention unmistakably to that and what happens is, because we're bad at multitasking, your nerves go away.

Andy Earle: Want to hear the full interview? Sign up for a subscription today. It's completely affordable and your membership supports the work we do here at Talking to Teens. You can now sign up directly through Apple Podcasts.

Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.