Talking To Teens: Expert Tips for Parenting Teenagers

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Andy Earle: You are listening to Talking to Teens where we speak with leading experts from a variety of disciplines about the art and science of parenting teenagers. I'm your host, Andy Earle.

We're talking today about how to build a lifelong bond with your child.

Research shows that teens thrive best when they are in this kind of relationship with their parents, where they don't feel judged. They feel like their parents enjoy spending time with them and.

That they are loved unconditionally and likewise, they feel the same.

This is also the type of relationship that leads to a lasting close bond after adolescence. And the way to build that kind of relationship isn't to try to be their friend now.

It is a very specific, balanced approach, and it's what today's guest

Dr. [00:01:00] Kenneth Ginsburg refers to as lighthouse Parenting.

Dr. Ginsburg is a leading expert on adolescent health.

And his latest book is called Lighthouse Parenting.

Ken, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Really excited to have you here.

Kenneth Ginsburg: It's a pleasure to be here and there's probably very few things I care about more than talking to teens, so we're good.

Andy Earle: You have been working around teenagers for a very long time now, working with parents, professionals on how to communicate better with teenagers and deal with teenagers more effectively. What started all this, or how did you get so interested in such a specific age group?

Kenneth Ginsburg: Yeah, so I've actually been working with adolescents for about 40 years, since I was in my teens. If I had to say like what my life mission is, honestly, Andy, it is to prepare adults to be the people young people deserve in their lives. What got me into it? It's so complicated and so many different things. I [00:02:00] imagine part of it is my own adolescence. Part of it is being a pediatrician and thinking about health and wellness and just seeing where things go wrong, right? Where things go wrong starts with how we're looking at kids. And if we're looking at kids as broken in need of repair, we're already losing.

And if we focus really hard on seeing all that is good and right in young people, now we're winning. Now we're partnering, now we're building instead of repairing. So all of that came together when I was in my older teens, and began working with younger teens and seeing what they needed.

Full transparency. I've had a great life except for one year in my teens where I had a particularly not good life. And, maybe some level of this is about preparing people to be the kind of people I would've needed if I knew how to ask for help and could do so without shame, which I couldn't do.

So now I prepare [00:03:00] kids how to talk to adults and adults how to talk to kids. So it's been a good life.

Andy Earle: Wow. I love that and there's so much to dive into in your body of work.

Your new book is on the idea of lighthouse parenting, and I'm really interested to learn a little more about that.

What do you mean by that? Why lighthouse parenting? Why is this an important concept? And what does it mean to parent like a lighthouse?

Kenneth Ginsburg: It's not a new trend. It's not like one more word. All those parenting styles that are like named after farm implements or things that fly, right?

This is absolutely not that. I'm a pediatrician. I write on behalf of the American Academy and Pediatrics. I talk about what works. So what do we know works? We know that what works, is when we raise young people with that beautiful balance of being loved and knowing that they're loved.

Adults being responsive, meaning flexible to meet their needs, and [00:04:00] being protected. Meaning that we have the guardrails in place, so that they're the right boundaries, and they know what our expectations are. And that's called, fancy talk, it's called authoritative Parenting. A little bit better, it's called Balanced parenting.

Six decades of research on that. Six decades. And what we know is that kids raised with that balancing act are going to be emotionally healthier, take fewer behavioral risks, do better in school and career, they're going to have better relationships, and stronger, enduring, lasting relationships with their families.

But let me say one more thing, Andy. It's so nice to be like a doctor who talks about research, but can we also talk about common sense, right? You could ask your grandma, what works? And she would've said to you, kids need to know that they're loved and they need to know that we're protecting them because we love them, right?

So lighthouse [00:05:00] parenting is about how to apply all of this. The science doesn't tell you how to apply. It tells you what you should do, but doesn't tell you how. And that's my role in the universe. If you're ready to listen, I'll tell you why I chose the term lighthouse.

You wanna hear that?

Andy Earle: Hmm. I like that.

Kenneth Ginsburg: So the word authoritative doesn't mean anything to non-scientists, so we don't wanna use that word. Balance, makes you say balancing what? What am I supposed to balance? Right?

But just the metaphor of the lighthouse. You're beginning to picture something that's solid and stable. That's like a light. You're beginning to understand that it's there to protect you, but it does it by guiding you.

Andy Earle: Yeah. It shows you the way or shows you where to be careful. Beware here.

Kenneth Ginsburg: But it doesn't do for you. Yeah. Right. It trusts. So now listen to these words. I choose to be a lighthouse parent. A stable force on the shoreline from which my child can measure themself against. I'll send my signals in a [00:06:00] way they'll choose to trust. I'll look down at the rocks to be sure they don't crash against them.

I'll look into the waves and trust they'll learn to ride them, but I'm committed to preparing them to do so. What's most important to me right now, Andy, is about parents being there when the kid needs them the most. So listen to this final line. I'll remain a source of light they can seek whenever they need a safe and secure return, right?

Mm-hmm. So now with the metaphor of a lighthouse, I haven't invented anything. I've tried to put it together in language that everybody can relate to you and that evokes that spirit of balancing protection with trust, guidance, and love. It's all there and the waves, life's got waves.

Andy Earle: That is true. And storms and bad weather.

So many connections there. Some other things you talk about in the book are really interesting too.

You talk about cold communication versus hot [00:07:00] communication. What's the difference?

Kenneth Ginsburg: To know how to communicate with a young person or with a person in crisis of any age, you have to understand the brain. And you adolescent brain is emotionally brilliant. When we reach adolescence, we suddenly become hyper intuitive, incredibly aware of our surroundings.

I think we do this because we have to quickly judge who's trying to take advantage of us, who's challenging us for power, and we have to quickly have that emotional profound intelligence develop. And sometimes that emotionally brilliant child can over read their surroundings. It's why for parents, you look at your child and you're just thinking, and they're like, why are you looking at me like that?

Why do you hate me? So sometimes they over read, but because they're brilliant. So the emotional centers of their brain are on fire. Developing so rapidly creating this emotional and social [00:08:00] brilliance.

The thinking part of the brain is also developing very rapidly. They're becoming more intelligent, more planning, but it's just not quite as on fire.

So the question is, which part of the brain do you turn on? And we want. For our thinking, planning child to develop and to do bring them out to their fullest potential. We've got to quiet their emotional brilliance. So that's the background. And what it means is how are we gonna talk when we talk with what we call hot communication?

We are angry, condescending, belittling. We don't see them as experts in their own lives. We lecture them. Don't you know the, what you're doing right now which could lead to behavior A could go to B2C. Look at me young man. When I'm talking to you,

Andy Earle: How many times have I told you? How many? Not getting... how many times...

Kenneth Ginsburg: And they don't hear a word you say.

So too, I gotta say Andy, with exuberance, [00:09:00] when you're over the top excited, they emotionally go buzz up and can't and can't think. Yeah.

On the other end, when we use cold communication, which is actually really warm, but it can be joyful, but it's not over the top. It's calm. And we understand that, sure, I got the wisdom, I got the experience, but you know your life.

Let's partner. 'Cause you're the expert in that part of you. Let's partner. And rather than lecturing, we're like, Hey Andy, you're thinking about doing behavior A I get it. My job is to protect you, to make sure B doesn't happen. What do you think, Andy? What are you gonna do to make sure B doesn't happen and only when B happens?

Do we invite you to consider C and only then D. In other words, cold communication, which is actually deeply warm, is about engaging you, respecting you, calming [00:10:00] you, which means that your incredibly brilliant emotional side is on hold for right now. So you have the emotional piece of human connection, but not the reactivity piece.

So now I can think. That's the secret to talking adolescents. All right there in the last minute and a half.

Andy Earle: Easy. Just do that. You have a whole big section also on judgment, which I thought was really insightful.

And, a lot of times when a teenager finally does share something with us that's serious, the way that we react to that and those initial moments after they share it can be really important in what happens next or whether they share similar things in the future.

What are ways that we might without even trying to, be making them feel judged or like they made a mistake in opening up.

Kenneth Ginsburg: I'm really glad you went there because you didn't just go in the reaction. You can say, what should we do in general? So you're absolutely right. A human being isn't gonna share something with you, even your own child, [00:11:00] if they feel unsafe doing so. And there's nothing that makes a human feel less safe than being judged.

And there's the obvious stuff. There's when we yell at them, when we degrade them, when we shame them. That's obvious. But you don't need me to tell you that, you know that. Let's talk about what's not obvious. When we are trying to be good parents, many of us go for friendship. The classic permissive parent is, I didn't have a good relationship with my dad.

I want you to think of me more as a friend. Call me Ken. Let me tell you why that backfires. Even though adolescents say to adults all the time, I wish you were more like my friends. They're so cool. They don't judge me. They get me. Why can't you get me? So even though they say that, the truth is that if we look back at our own adolescence, we are living in constant fear of losing our friends. That's why we try on so many hats. That's what peer pressure really is. Peer pressure [00:12:00] isn't kids looking at you and go and do this or die. That's for the Made for TV movies that don't understand kids.

Peer pressure is the internal voice we have that says, I really want to fit in and I'm willing to do this to fit in. So friendship is beautiful. Friendship is also unstable. And when we act, as loving adults or as parents, and we act like friends, we are bringing fear into the relationship. Fear of loss, fear of disappointment.

Fear that this relationship is not stable. We as parents are so much better than friends. Our love is unconditional. We're not going anywhere. So that's a big thing. Don't be your child's friend. Be your parent. It's way better when your child's in your twenties, as my children are. They're gonna be your best friends, but wait till they're standing solidly on their own feet. Right now they need a parent.

Point number one. [00:13:00] Two, even if you are perfect and say all the right words to your children all the time, which by the way, no one does. But let's even imagine that you are perfect. But you judge your spouse, the neighbors. You live in a divisive society where we make enemies out of anyone that disagrees with you, and you watch the TV and yell at people who are disagreeing with you.

Your children are paying attention. And when they're paying attention, they're going, my dad is judgy and I can't tell him who I really am inside. All the things inside of me that are hurting. All the things inside of me that don't feel like who he expected me to turn out to be. Or even if I'm having a really bad day. Because I don't want to be shut down and I don't want to be seen as an enemy.

Our children are watching us all the time, Andy. I wanna be there. I want everyone who's listening to you to be [00:14:00] there when their kid really needs you. So you watch the judgment. And it's the subtle stuff, not the obvious stuff. You don't need you and me to have a conversation to teach parents what not to say when it's obvious, right?

But this other stuff's real and deep.

Andy Earle: Something I always find really helpful is ideas of how you could phrase things. And you have some great examples in your book of kind of little templates and scripts that people could use in different situations. And this one I thought was really cool. I know you can blank because you have always blank.

Hmm. Why is that a powerful script?

Kenneth Ginsburg: Oh, it's unbelievably powerful because the most protective force in a young life is that the person who knows them the best, the person who knows everything that's good and right about them, and everything that makes you want to pull out your hair, that that person chooses to love you.

What could be more protective than to be deeply known by a human who chooses to [00:15:00] love you? You gotta ask yourself, why do we love? And the reason we love is so people learn that they're worthy of being loved. That is the most fundamental gift you can give your child.

Now, let's get directly to your question. So when you're trying to create a behavioral change saying, do this because you're messing up. You've already lost. You've painted the child as broken, as somehow empty. As something you need to fix. But when you take the thing you're wanting to change or wanting them to improve upon, and you first build from their skills from what is good about you...

I know you can treat your brother more fairly because I have never seen someone more generous with other children than you. And I'm gonna ask you to pull from that generosity and lend it to your brother right now.

It's a template. And we change [00:16:00] people, we invite people to change their behavior, by stretching into a new experience, but drawing from all that's already good and right about them. And this isn't just about parenting, Andy. I work with youth experiencing homelessness. That's largely what I do clinically.

I do the exact same thing. I never start with a state of brokenness. I always start through an intense listening process that helps me understand who this person really is, what their strengths are, and how we can build from there. The most beautiful thing about being a parent is you know that.

But your child may not know you know that.

Andy Earle: It actually makes me feel seen. As you're trying to encourage me to do something different or step up in some way, you're actually connecting with me, making me feel validated.

Kenneth Ginsburg: You literally got it. When a person is seen and heard in their completeness, in their goodness.

Then anything we say moving forward from [00:17:00] that is about improvement because you deserve it.

Andy Earle: Mm mm And it's like just assuming the assumption, of course you can do it. 'Cause I know because you, always done it. And it's so different from what you were talking about earlier of, you need to stop doing it this way and start doing it this way, and painting it as this different thing from how they are now that they need to change.

Kenneth Ginsburg: And you're going need to stretch, right?

So Andy, I write so much for professionals and for parents. Let me lay on you that I have the audacity to have defined love. This is what I talk about professional groups all the time.

Love is seeing someone as they deserve to be seen, as they really are, not through the lens of a behavior they might be displaying in the moment. And whether we are parents or whether we are professionals, we just are always trying to fix kids and we're always trying to fix them based on a given behavior instead of building from the strength.

Andy, I'm reacting to what you are [00:18:00] saying when you say, I feel seen and heard. That's it. That's all it is. Right? Seen and heard in all of your goodness and all of your complexity, rather than in what most adults enter a situation with, which is right now we have to fix this.

You, you've already lost the communication battle if you're bringing someone into a fix it conversation instead of a build you conversation.

Andy Earle: You also talk in the book about the importance of empathy, but that sometimes there's a such thing as too much empathy. Strong displays of empathy that can shut down communication. How would might that be?

Kenneth Ginsburg: This is actually among the most important points that I try to teach.

We want to be solidly present always, but sometimes when a child is going through a crisis and you dive in deeply empathetic, you actually magnify the crisis. You actually make it feel worse than it really [00:19:00] is in an attempt to engage your child. So instead, we are present.

We are there. We are calm and loving and trust that the child will get through it.

Andy Earle: It goes back to that cold communication you were talking about earlier. If you're really empathizing and you're getting worked up about what they're going through and saying, oh my God, that's terrible.

I can't believe that. You must be so devastated, then you're not cold communicating.

Kenneth Ginsburg: You got it. Then what's happening is you're not gonna help the child be able to get through the situation, which they need their thinking abilities to do. So, absolutely. You got it. But let's have an example.

Like, go back to eighth grade. You have a big fight with your friend Mitch. You go home and you tell your mom or your dad. They're like, Mitch is terrible for you. He is the worst influence on you. He never liked you. You were always better. He is just jealous of you. I'm so glad you're having this fight.

Who's Mitch the next day? Think [00:20:00] about eighth grade. Who's Mitch the next day? He's your best friend again. Now you're not gonna be able to communicate with your parents 'cause they just told you how much they hate him and hate their mother and his mother and you never want you to see him again.

You've just shut off communication. Can we use this point to, it's a slight change, but I really think this is a great opportunity to make another point in the same kind of category, which is praise. We also overly praise, and there's so many reasons that goes wrong, but let's do one piece first.

When we praise, we so often praise with kind of the mathematical sentence that basically say says, I am so proud of you because of...

Andy Earle: Oh my gosh, you aced your thing. You won the, you got the trophy, you did the whatever. Oh my gosh, let's get pizza.

We're so proud of you. We love you so much. That is exciting.

Kenneth Ginsburg: Perfect. So you just acted out pride because of [00:21:00] performance. Well, let me tell you something. Now my life gets tough and I'm not doing well. In my mind, what I remember is my dad was so happy he was gonna take me out for pizza when I aced the test.

How's he gonna feel about me when I'm screwing up? And that's what I need my dad the most. So rather than saying, I'm so proud of you because of blank, you know, when I say a mathematical sentence, what I mean is there's a structure to the way we communicate.

Yeah. And when we communicate, I'm so proud of you because of blank. The hidden, actually not so hidden message is I wouldn't be proud of you if you didn't...

Andy Earle: Well, take out blank. You also take out pride.

Kenneth Ginsburg: Which means I'm not coming to you when I most need you. And my job in the universe is to help people be there when kids need them the most, right?

And if you just switched it to you, I'm so proud of you today. But what I'm most proud of is that you include me [00:22:00] in your life. And let me tell you something today, you aced that test. I hope you have a lot of good tests in your future. But life's going to throw you some curve balls. You wanna know when I'm gonna be your best dad?

Come to me then. 'Cause I'm always gonna be there for you. I love how we communicate. Like, have 20 different ways that you can say that. So the mathematical sentence is, I am so pleased that you came to me. Right. That's the message. Yeah. That allows us to be the scaffolding. And it's the message.

The secret of every book is to look at the subtitle, right? Mm-hmm. Like lighthouse parenting, like, oh, what's that? But the subtitle, Raising Your Child With Loving Guidance for a Lifelong Bond. That is one of the things that makes this book so different is that I'm trying to help parents think not just now.

Who your child's gonna be when they're 35 and 50. Not only in terms of them being successful in the world, but in relationship to you. And if you set them up with I'm only [00:23:00] proud because, they're not coming back to you. If you are someone who's controlling them, they're flying away from you.

If you are someone who's loving them without condition and guiding them always, they want you in their life forever.

Andy Earle: They need to have the feeling that you genuinely enjoy being with them and spending time with them and talking to them and knowing them more deeply. And you have lots of great ideas on how people can do more of that.

I highly encourage people to check out a copy of the new book as well as some of your previous books.

Where could people go to see all of your work or find out more about everything that you've done? Do you have a collection of all this somewhere?

Kenneth Ginsburg: So if you go to fostering resilience.com or lighthouse parenting.com, they both get you to the same place.

There'll be quite a few materials, films, and articles that you can [00:24:00] draw from. But there's another site that I want your folks to be aware of. An absolutely free site. Parent and teen.com is the site for the Center for Parent and Teen Communication. It is actually the largest body of work out there on the web for strength-based communication.

Andy Earle: I encourage people to check it out and to grab a copy of the book, Lighthouse Parenting, Raising Your Child With Loving Guidance for a Lifelong Bond.

Ken, thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing your experiences, your wisdoms, and advice. It's been enlightening and entertaining.

Kenneth Ginsburg: Andy, I just loved this conversation. Thank you.

Andy Earle: We're here with Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg talking about how to build a lifelong bond with your teen, and we're not done yet. Here's a look at what's coming up in the second half of the show.

Kenneth Ginsburg: Your [00:25:00] adolescent learns that you actually enjoy them.

You get something out of being with them.

The very best protection you can give your child is to prepare them to do things themselves. How about we begin imagining the 35-year-old you're raising what's gonna get them their second job? I guarantee it's not the second boss asking them how they did on their SATs. It's not gonna be whether they made Captain of the lacrosse team, it's gonna be the second boss calling the first boss and saying, does she get along with people? Can she take constructive criticism? When discipline feels like punishment or control, it backfires. People feel like victims. And they don't learn a thing. What we need is for people to respect and to listen to each other. That takes authentic humility. Humility isn't like, ah, shucks, it's, I can learn from anybody.

Andy Earle: Wanna hear the full interview? Sign up for a subscription today. It's completely affordable and your membership supports the work we do [00:26:00] here at Talking to Teens. You can now sign up directly through Apple Podcasts.

Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.