Talking To Teens: Expert Tips for Parenting Teenagers

Andy Earle: You're listening to Talking to Teens, where we speak with leading experts from a variety of disciplines about the art and science of parenting teenagers. I'm your host, Andy Earle.

We're talking today about the science of resilience.

Your teenager is definitely going to fail at things. They're definitely going to stumble. They're definitely going to hit roadblocks in their journey through life.

Some teens will encounter really serious hardship.

What is the difference between the teens who are able to bounce back and power through difficulties and setbacks, or the ones that get derailed by it?

These are the questions asked by Dr. Tovah Klein in her new book, Raising Resilience.

Dr. Klein is a psychology professor at Barnard College, the director of the Center for Toddler Development, And the author of multiple books, including How Toddlers Thrive and now Raising Resilience.

Tovah, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Tovah Klein: I'm excited to be here.

Andy Earle: I have been reading through your book, Raising Resilience, How to Help Our Children Thrive in Times of Uncertainty. this is so packed with research and information and stories. And I'm really excited to speak with you about it. Tell me a little about this. What inspired it? And what's the process been like of writing all this?

Tovah Klein: Yeah. So it came out of my thinking about uncertainty back in 2016 when I was thinking I want to write another book. What are parents dealing with?

All the time, regardless of the age of a child, regardless of the context of their lives. It's uncertainty, whether that's on a day to day basis, in the world or in your life. so I had started working on a proposal thinking, this is really where this needs to go. That would be about stress and, where do we have control?

Where don't we? the pandemic hit and I thought, wow, this feels really uncertain, so that spurred me on to this concept of, I would like to help parents understand why we're so destabilized when times are shaky,

That moved into a, what does that mean? And what that really means is how do we help children be resilient regardless of what's going on in their life from everyday stressors to great big ones. I've spent my career working with families, parents, and children on both every day, like getting through the day challenges with teenagers to major serious life events.

Like crises or catastrophes. I wanted to put those two together because what parents do every single day to build a relationship, to reconnect when we disconnect, all of that daily building relationship coming back together is what prepares children to face life. And all it's adversity. that was able to combine trauma work with everyday challenges.

And that's what this book does.

Andy Earle: You bring together your work in these really extreme situations. grounded in, trauma. that parents and teens face all the time. One thing that I found really interesting, you talk about some work you did in the 1980s in the homeless shelter system in New York city.

why was that important? And what was interesting about what you discovered there?

Tovah Klein: Yeah, so I moved here right after college and was very interested in when bad things happen to people. It's lifelong interest and we were really in a crisis in this city of. Homeless families. It was on a large scale that the city had never really seen.

I got involved working with families, primarily with young children. And it was so eyeopening. I was a young person interested in psychology, but wasn't sure what path I was going to take. And here were people living in some of the worst conditions that Anybody could imagine and why you would do this to children, let alone to adults.

I couldn't understand, but also in this incredibly rich city of New York City. through that and working with families and children, I kept seeing primarily mothers because many of the shelters didn't allow fathers in. I saw children who were really doing well, and I would think to myself, how could you possibly be thriving and developing well, when life is giving you so much bad stuff, I turned to the parents, and I would see these really connected relationships in spite of crises, in spite of devastating lives, that piqued my interest in that relationship, which I had studied a bit in college, that relationship between parents and children really matters.

And I wanted to know how we could support parents, but really, ultimately, how we could support children by buffering them. And I could see that's what some adults were able to do and support. They were buffering their children from extreme stress. And that was like my, aha, there's something here that I would like to understand.

Andy Earle: And of course, the question is, what are they doing differently? How can we all implement some of that in our own lives and our own families? a theme that you keep returning to throughout the book is this idea that what parents are doing that are really buffering their kids in that way.

Is there, they're acting in two senses as both a container and an anchor for their children. What does that mean? And how do you do that?

Tovah Klein: Yeah. I think as a parent myself, I have three children as parents listening, being challenged by teenagers and getting joy from teenagers.

You get both. We don't think about what we're doing every single day to support our children. I think it just, Either comes naturally or just doing it to get through the day, but I think of this as container and anchor in 2 ways. 1 is we provide our children with a safe place, a safe base, what we call security.

we often think about this with younger children, which is where my work started in attachment and separation. What we don't tend to emphasize is that anchoring allowing children to. A child to be themselves, but no, I'm safe coming home. My parents going to be there for me, even in my worst moments that goes all through life.

And it's particularly important for teenagers because they're out testing themselves in the world. They need a place where they can say, I'm going to be safe here. My parents going to provide me with some base. And then the containing, which is a really important, it's like a boat metaphor is that our children and certainly our teenagers have a lot of emotions and big emotions and loud emotions, and it can get overwhelming.

the parent acts like a vessel that says, I can handle this. I can hear you out and I can help contain you so that it's not overwhelming to you. it's part of what we call co regulation helping adolescents through these intense emotions, ups and downs.

Sometimes it's really low. And that's the safe place, again, to be able to have all those emotions, but no, they're not alone. It's very scary to be out in the world completely alone, even if you think your teenager is pushing to be out there on their own. What they like is to know that there's a tether, and that's that anchoring and container.

Andy Earle: And you talk in the book about holding a string between you and your child and how at certain times you might let out more line or give them a bit of a longer string

Tovah Klein: Yeah, absolutely. I think we forget that about teenagers.

we think, Oh, our young child, I help them move out in the world, but we're still helping our teenagers. I've worked with college students for 30 years, They're 18, 19 at the beginning of that, then they're young adults. But when your child goes out in the world, 14, 15, 16, testing the waters in many ways, they actually want to know that you're in the background.

So yes, we step back more. we let this string, or maybe even think of it as a rope out more and more. We give them more latitude. But they feel best when we pull back and say, yeah, that curfew, I meant it. I meant 11 o'clock, That's the pulling back. And it also allows them to pull on the string of Hey, can I just talk to you and being available to them?

Andy Earle: I like that. You talk in the book about routines I found this interesting. At one point having routines around different aspects of family life gives you a baseline to see when things are deviating from the usual or normal way things go at this time of day, or when we're getting ready for this thing, or when we're doing this, which allows you to see when something might be off with your kids.

how do you notice those? And how do you take advantage of those moments?

Tovah Klein: Yeah, I'm glad you brought this up. Routines are those things that we do every day. Whether it's waking up, going to sleep, mealtime, even if it's not together every night, it's harder as our children get older, but some nights going on outings, playing games, whatever those things are that you do either every day or regularly, it helps to have routines because that provides this grounding.

And predictability that actually counters the stress and uncertainties. This is like something I can count on Thursday nights. We have a family dinner, right? I count on that. But what it also does is routines give us sort of a predictable power, particularly as the parent,

On most nights that you sit down for dinner, there's a little talking, a little bantering. if one of your children, who's usually very social, is suddenly very sullen, you might say to yourself, I wonder what's going on. maybe it's just that day. You do a little check in, but if you keep seeing this, what you're noticing is that usually they're not like this.

that brings up for us questions of what's going on? Something's shifted because children and teenagers speak through their behavior much more often than through words. those routines give us this moment to say, something seems different or off. do they need me a little more?

Should I be a little bit more available? Should I come home from work earlier, just so I'm there a little bit more? What is it that my child Needs at the moment is what happens. So it does take noticing on our part. It takes listening, it takes looking and absorbing who this individual is because it's the deviations from their, broad, general baseline that suggests that something's changed or is changing.

Andy Earle: it's approaching it in the right way with the teenager. my MO is getting more triggered into what's your problem? Why are you all moody today? Instead of finding a nicer way. Recognize. Probably struggling with something or something's going on with them.

how do you initiate that kind of interaction in a way that feels nicer or makes them want to share with you what's going on?

Tovah Klein: Yeah. And this is the piece that's based in the relationship. So it's very much about how can I try to connect in this moment to this child, which you may do unconsciously because we've got our back and forth with each individual child, but sometimes it takes a little bit more intention to say, how do I let her know that I'm concerned or how do I let her know that I've seen she's quieter than usual and you can do it in ways that are really empathic, noticed this was a little different. And then when the teenager goes. Leave me alone. I'm here. Yeah. I'm here. If you need me, you give them the space and you say, I'm here. I have a child who I had to always wait for him to come to me, but it was usually like around midnight, like mom, do you have a minute?

I learned to say yes. Even if I was exhausted, because that's when he would talk. And then I could say at some point, listen, I'm gotta go to bed. Could we continue this tomorrow? And even if we didn't, it gave him the support that he needed. You have to learn the nuances of each child. And that can be a challenge in adolescence and not take it personally when they tell us no or to shut up or to leave me alone.

They're really saying, I need my space and we can say. Got it. I'm here. If you need me

Andy Earle: something that I'm learning more and more about adolescents, is that when they're struggling with something or there's something going on with them, we have to get better at reading the signs or as you say, they talk more with their behavior.

necessarily have the words to say, Hey, I could really use some of this right now or some space or some help. I really need to talk to you because I have this thing going on. It often comes off as doing something mean or being aggressive or acting strange or being rude

And you have a great story in the book about one night when one of your teenage children marches into the kitchen very upset. And yells something like, you said you were the one finishing laundry tonight. I don't see the pants. I wanted, why did you say you were doing laundry when you weren't? I would have done it myself.

how did you handle the situation? And how does it relate to what we're talking about?

Tovah Klein: I think every parent of a teenager has these moments. I was so taken aback, like, where is this coming from? I can't say I always handled it well, but in this moment, I was able to say to myself this ain't about me.

This is not about me. I said to him. Pretty clearly, but not blaming, you might want to try that differently, in other words, take a break. I said to my teams did you really think I was going to respond to that? In other words, keeping it light, but also putting a boundary around it and he stormed out and then came back in and apologize was like, yeah, sorry about that. It gave him a minute to exhale and me a minute to exhale because otherwise I was going to scream at him like, how dare you speak to me like this? it doesn't help when he's not an awful person. He's having a rough moment, but the parent doesn't have to jump. we can say, Hey that's not something I'm going to respond to.

But if you have a request, come back. And it gave him a chance to save face, not be ashamed and then come back. And you never know when they're going to come back. I was actually really surprised that it turned him around in time. And he came back and he was like, I'll do the laundry.

Yeah. It's respect, it's respect and trust that's built long before the teen years.

Andy Earle: I just love that and I think that's so relatable and it's so easy to go the other way where you feel disrespected and it's like, how dare you talk to me like that? And it turns into this whole argument. Really, it's not even about the laundry. it turns out that once he's able to calm down, he's really upset about his schoolwork

And he had been excited to get these pants and that's one more thing that set him over the edge it's not really about the pants at all,

Tovah Klein: And I think every adult can relate to this, that there's some final piece that just puts you over the edge, but it's not really that piece.

And so when we give our adolescents some respect and some leeway, we're like, okay, maybe I didn't do the laundry, but whatever's going on, I'm sure it's not about the pants. rather than saying that I gave him some leeway and he came to it himself. I really am upset about something else.

And they don't always tell you, but I think often they do. It's not really about this thing, but I'm upset. Can you sit with me and help me figure out this homework, what we're helping them do is bring down that arousal. And I talk a lot about that in the book, when arousal goes up and the child or teens need for us to not go up with them.

That's the battle that doesn't serve them and we're not going to win They're going to end up ashamed, angry, enraged. when physical arousal goes up, which is emotional arousal, they count on us to get to a calmer place. that's what eventually brings them down. we have to give them the room to do it.

Andy Earle: And is that what you mean by being able to contain their emotions? Yes.

Tovah Klein: Yes. And it's hard. Listen, it's hard on every parent. It's why the other half of my book is who are we as parents and all these reflective questions, because the thing that's going to really push my buttons is different than what's going to push yours or a different parent.

And we have to say to ourselves, what is it about this child's behavior that so enrages me? And the better we know ourselves, the calmer we become. And the better we are at being their parent, we get grounded, right? I talk about this in the book, we have to be grounded first. And it says to them, I'm steady.

I'm going to get through your whirlwind with you so that they can come back after they've stormed out and screamed, they'll come back.

Andy Earle: You talk about the importance of our children needing to sit with the feeling and teaching them how to label the feeling, but then also get inside their body and really process the feeling and notice where it's located, how it's feeling, everything like that.

Why is that important and how do we facilitate that?

Tovah Klein: Yeah. Emotions are tricky. Good emotions feel great. negative emotions don't feel good to a child or a teenager, but also don't feel good to parents. most people go into becoming a parent, not thinking about teenagers, but thinking about little children.

And we think, Oh, our job is to make them happy. And then they keep growing, and we don't understand why our teenagers aren't happy all the time. You've got a good life. What's the problem? When in fact, the parent's role is to help our children manage the real difficulties. That's the basis of resilience.

Can I handle these really negative experiences and emotions? And so it's one thing to label an emotion to say, hey, I'm angry. Or to scream, hey, I'm angry, but it's another to as a parent say, that's okay. And to help the child at 14 or 16 or 18 know that's. Part of them, and that they're experiencing it physically and we talk about emotions as if their language, but really what they are is the physical experience.

Sometimes there's a language piece. Yeah, I can see how tense you are. Where are you feeling that? putting a hand on a teenager's shoulder sometimes to say. Yeah, this is rotten. I get it. Your friend wasn't nice. So that they can start to experience that.

It's okay to have these emotions. how to actually walk a child through where in their body is that so often anxiety and fear and worry Is felt in our stomachs and our bellies, right? Tension is felt in our shoulders. Anger is felt throughout. So helping them located be with it.

Is that a step to getting through it? Because you can't, it's not like I'm angry. Now I'm done. It's like a tidal wave and you're helping bring it down a bit. That's the containing, but also to say, that's where it is in your body. That's what you're feeling. And that's the first step then in learning for the teenager, how to bring it down.

Cause they go up quickly. The brain is on fire in the adolescent years. And so emotions are very volatile.

Andy Earle: Thank you so much. Tovah. I really appreciate you coming on the show today and sharing your work and your stories and your wisdom with us. I highly encourage people to check out a copy of the book, Raising Resilience, How to Help Our Children Thrive in Times of Uncertainty.

Can you talk? A little bit about where people can go to find out more about you, about what you're doing next, maybe follow updates on what you're working on.

Tovah Klein: I have a website TovahKlein. com and I am on both social media Instagram, Facebook LinkedIn at Tovah Klein they can buy the book anywhere books are available in your neighborhood.

If you have an independent bookstore at Barnes and Noble online, you name it. You could get the book there.

Andy Earle: We're here today with Dr. Tovah Klein talking about the science Of resilience and we're not done yet. Here's a look at what's coming up in the second half of the show.

Tovah Klein: We are fix it people often, which does a disservice to our child.

They want to be seen, heard, and understood at least partially.

When we allow them to push back and be upset. It teaches them how to go out in the world and stand up for themselves when we pull back a bit and allow our children to move right and left and achieve or not achieve in the areas they're going to do, it says to them, we're here when things are good and we're here when things are not so good, and we're not going to judge you either way. Raising children is about taking slow, gradual steps back and then coming forward more when they need us. Resilience is built in the every day and the back and forth of our relationship doesn't mean it's going to work out perfectly ever.

Andy Earle: Want to hear the full interview? Sign up for a subscription today. It's completely affordable and your membership supports the work we do here at Talking to Teens. You can now sign up directly through Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.