Talking To Teens: Expert Tips for Parenting Teenagers

Andy Earle: You're listening to Talking to Teens, where we speak with leading experts from a variety of disciplines about the art and science of parenting teenagers. I'm your host, Andy Earle.

We're here today with Kate Parker talking about how to raise teens who raise their voices and speak out about issues that are important to them, who advocate for change in their community, at their schools, among their friends, and in the world at large.

Kate's work shows that even young girls can make a difference when they find their voice and use it to speak up.

Kate is a photographer and the author of five collections of photos, including Strong is the New Pretty and her new book Force of Nature.

She'll also be sharing with us some hacks on how we can take exceptional photos of our own kids.

Kate thank you so much for coming on the Talking to Teens podcast. Really excited to have you on the show today.

Kate Parker: Thanks for having me. I have two teenage daughters and so this is very close to home for me.

Andy Earle: Wow. And as we know, they're on the covers, of some of your books here.

Kate Parker: Yes, so yeah, my oldest daughter, who is the cover of Strong as You Pretty, is a freshman in college. And then my youngest daughter who is the cover force of nature as a freshman in high school. So we have both like the extremes right there.

Andy Earle: I really think it's so cool what you're doing. We're just talking about how you've done five of these books in the last seven years?

And I can't even begin to imagine the amount of work that goes into this, But what was the inspiration for the first one, or how did the concept come about of doing these collections?

Kate Parker: So Stronger Than You Pretty came about I had been taking photos of my girls for many years. I was really just trying to practice. I was a family photographer, Trying to just capture them and also make sure that I could get photos in low light and get them in focus.

I noticed that a lot of photos of young girls where their hair was done and they were smiling and looking at the camera and they were just These perfect little pretty very well put together little girls. And my girls generally did not look that way.

I did not look like that when I was a young girl. And so as a photographer, I was like I want my girls to know that being emotional and being dirty and not having your hair done and not having an outfit on that matches is fine. And more than fine. Like we want to celebrate that, like whoever they were, I wanted to celebrate that.

And so I would do that through photography and started taking intentional photos of them, being crazy or on the trampoline or. Whatever they were doing, I was trying to show them that was, worthy of celebration. And so my first collection of photos came about that way.

And it's a funny story because I was in a gallery here in Atlanta with the images.

And it was like my first gallery show ever. I was really excited to be a part of it. I was a new photographer at the time and thinking I've made it. This is it. I'm so successful And then not a single image sold in the show.

And so I was devastated. But I still thought this idea of celebrating girls for who they are and not what they like celebrating girls for being beautiful as opposed to pretty was, worthwhile.

So I just kept sending it out to blogs that I followed and nobody picked it up I sent it everywhere. to CNN, the Today Show. New York times, I didn't care who said no. And they all said no, or ignored it. And then one blog ran it and all of those places started running it and somebody said, Hey, would you like to do a book of this?

And then I was like, Oh my goodness. Yes. You can give a book to your friend or your daughter or whoever. And also I was excited because at that point, the project really was just my daughters and their friends.

So it was not representative of strength. It was not diverse because it was just a personal project. So like having the opportunity to take up like a year and shoot all kinds of girls all over the country and showing all kinds of strength was like, The coolest thing that I've ever had to do. I loved it so much.

And so that was my first book, Strong is New Pretty. Which ended up doing well. And I think now it's in, I think it's in 10, 15 different languages and, a bunch of different countries. And so it was a really amazing first experience with publishing.

Andy Earle: What you're talking about is so interesting to me and it makes me think about what is photography or what's the point of photography?

I think back to those old photos you see back from, a hundred years ago where it was like, you might only take a few photos in your life. So you have to sit still for such a long time while the Thing is exposing and you dress up and it's like a big deal. You want to show yourself at your best or something like that and how it's so evolved now to where we want to show what's real or we don't want it to feel like we're putting on this kind of almost like fake version of ourselves. Or that it now feels like not helpful to do that anymore. It's interesting.

Kate Parker: Yeah.

I think part of the impetus for the project for me was like, it was the advent of like social media and like all of the images that, that my girls and I were seeing were.

Or photoshopped or face tuned or altered in some sort of way. And my girls were so young at the time and I just was trying to like school them and educate them and look over their shoulders and be like, her skin doesn't look like that. You understand they lit that professionally.

And also nobody's waist is that tiny. And just trying to be, like at, how are they supposed to know they're 10 and 12 or whatever the ages they were? And I'm a professional photographer being like no. This is not, this is all fake. This is all fake. No one looks like that.

Nobody's that perfect, So I was like, I want to show images of girls, like doing things that are like, in moments where they don't care what they look like, because that's the least important thing to them. And so it was important to me to show that side of women and girls.

Andy Earle: I think that is so cool. and really important, I think, cause yeah, that was a big turning point for me, spending some time in the modeling industry in my twenties and starting to just see how pictures are actually made. And now I look at it was just like magazine ads and billboards, like so much, so differently.

All I see is like the wardrobe stylist, clipping the things in the back and how that's duct taped right there and whatever. It's how fake it is or whatever, just. Yeah but I think I didn't look at things like that before seeing behind the scenes and like there, I think breaking down the mystique or the barrier or something like that is really important for being able to see things for what they really are and understand the reality.

Kate Parker: Yeah, I think like viewing and consuming social media, especially with a critical eye is like such a skill to that. We should try to teach our kids because it's what they see the most. any photo shoot, you turn around, you take a picture in the back. There's 25 clips hanging off the back of the person and there's a hair and makeup stylist.

Like literally right off frame, like touching them up and making sure every single hair is in place and in addition to the, just the looks is also just the at least from like a kid's perspective of what they're posting is oh, I had the, best time ever all the time. And you're like, Oh I like my, even my own girls would post that.

And I'm like you didn't really have that much fun there. But you're just like, just reminding them, like you were at this party or whatever the thing was. So like, when you look at other people's feed. It's not the best time.

They're just, it's just remembering that it's all not real, and so not to take it so to heart.

Andy Earle: The new book is really about speaking out a kind of authenticity in a way, but really finding your voice and you organize it into these sections. I think four major sections.

Can you talk a little about where that came from and how you conceptualize the phases of speaking out or finding what you want to talk about and what you think That means for girls today or for parents who are trying to help our teenagers find their voice and speak out.

Kate Parker: Yeah. So it's find your voice, sustain your voice. Amplify your voice.

Andy Earle: There we go.

Kate Parker: And wait, I missed one after find, use, sustain and amplify. So yes, those are all you've I, and it's funny, like a lot of it's when we lay out the book, we literally like print all the pictures and then we're, I'm in my publisher's office and we have But we had these big walls, fine, use, amplify, sustain.

And most of them could fit in everyone. And it's just trying to like, and also the thing that was interesting was like, this was the first book that I ever, that I have ever included women in as a conscious choice and all, like most of the women was in sustain and so I was on the right side.

But it was, yeah, it's just like the phases of breaking it down into of us recognizing that we have agency, we have power, and then the courage to use it, and then the knowledge that we know we need to keep it up, and then, okay, we're using our voice, and then also, like, how do we sustain this?

And I had this amazing opportunity Like a shoot where I was like, I was shooting it was they were shooting a documentary and it was a conversation between Gloria Steinem and Billie Jean King. I could not believe I was there and I was on the floor, like getting real low, like shooting stills of their conversation.

And Gloria Steinem asked a question of Billie Jean King and she said Like, how do you feel, at this stage in our lives that we're passing our torch along? And Billie Jean King said the best thing I think I've ever heard. she said, I don't feel like I'm passing it along.

I am taking my flame, lighting individual flames. So then it's all like this great fire. You're not giving it away. You're just adding to someone else's flame. So that's what I hope the book does a little bit of that of like, educate, you educate, like a girl would see something maybe and take inspiration from some, how someone else's use their voice and apply it to their life to be like, Oh, it's not the exact same situation, but I don't like what's going on here.

And instead of living with it, I'm going to speak up and make a change.

Andy Earle: Yeah, because part of what's so cool about what you do is you really feature people's stories and ways that young girls have made a difference or made an impact in their community and their school by seeing something, taking an issue with something and realizing that it wasn't sitting well with them, or it wasn't okay with them and actually being able to something about it whether it's writing letters or going to city council meetings or creating foundations or companies that are doing things.

And it's really inspiring. it's fuel for that fire for our own girls to start to see that and say, wow. I could do something like that. when I see something that doesn't feel good to me, I don't have to just accept that I can do something about it.

I have agency or I have power. And that's so cool.

I wonder how you think we can instill that sense of power into our daughters to take action on things.

Kate Parker: I think our kids come to us with complaints or things that they feel are wrong. And you can just give it that little nudge of yeah, that's not right.

What do you want to do about it? How are you going to change it? I can help you and I can advise you, but also you can make this change.

there was a group of girls in the book that, I was so impressed by under the last administration, there had been changes made to title which protected sexual harassers in their high school. basically it made it easier for them to stay in school the girls at their high school did not feel safe and they were mad about it, which is understandable.

They hired a lawyer and sued the U. S. government as high schoolers, I was just like, there is no way I would have thought about that when I was a senior in high school, and I wouldn't have known that's possible, that is obviously really impressive, but you don't have to do it that big, if something doesn't sit right with you, I guarantee you, it doesn't sit right with other people.

you can find others to help you, create this change. But yeah, super impressive.

Andy Earle: And in that same vein of kind of not necessarily just trying to fix it ourselves or do it ourselves, but empowering them to. There's a great story in the book of this girl who they didn't have the basketball shoes you wanted.

They had only basketball shoes from like male basketball players. And she went to all these different sports stores and then she went to Foot Locker and the cashier there made fun of her almost for even wanting to have a basketball shoe from a female basketball player But then she decided to do something about it and she writes an article about it and starts sharing the article, which starts to get attention to where actually Foot Locker pays attention to it. It says, Oh actually, we're going to fix this which I just thought was so cool.

Kate Parker: It's funny because that was like, I think that happened maybe two years ago or three years ago, but now you look at Caitlin Clark and literally because the guy at the Foot Locker had said, like, why would you even watch women's basketball? It's like watching paint dry and The numbers were better for the women's NCAA and like it was, the most watched games ever.

And she's just ahead of the curve, clearly. And yeah, one of the changes that came out of Adi's she wrote this op ed about how Basically what BS that was. And then Dick's sporting goods, reach out to her and they changed the way they merchandise women's sporting goods at the store because she was like 11 at the time it's amazing that, that was not her intention.

She was upset and she wanted to be like, this isn't right. But she's not expecting. Any of the stuff that happened afterwards,

Andy Earle: You never know what's going to happen or where it's going to go when you start to authentically share your voice and speak up about things that are not okay with you.

Kate Parker: Correct.

Andy Earle: And there's so many examples of that or things like that, this girl Brianna was talking about how she collaborated with a local gift store to make some special edition coasters to sell to raise money to donate to nonprofits in her city, Just like how cool that is to say, Hey, I have this artistic talent or like making things and want to help people.

And I think it's easy to think as a kid. Maybe when I grow up, I can do something about it. Maybe then I get to help people. I really care about things, but not much you can do as a kid, but it keeps just striking me over and over again, reading through this book that it doesn't have to be that way.

you can do something about it.

Kate Parker: Yeah, I think that's the beauty of social media and the internet is like finding and seeing and hearing these stories of like kids that, are galvanizing that power and finding others like minded like them and finding ways to pursue these passions that may be really narrow I think that girl was like, did leather making, and I saw her speak at a kid's pitch fest where they were pitching their entrepreneurial ideas. And all these kids have these amazing Ways that they and they all had a philanthropic component to them. And it was just very cool to see very mature in business.

Like they had business plans and they had to pitch. Their product in front of 150 people. And then there was one winner that, actually got their product in. I think it was in title 9 in their magazine.

I think there's so many opportunities for kids these days find their place. And find their voice. And hopefully, the stories in this book help one person speak up in a way that maybe they didn't think was possible before.

Andy Earle: I love that. This one really was impactful to me.

This girl Zoe. Who is 10 years old and she's really you can't find any dolls that have hair like hers. She's a black girl with kind of really curly hair. And yeah, I have noticed that how all the dolls with dark skin, they still have the straight hair what kind of message is that sending to little girls whose hair doesn't look like that. Or I started noticing that in movies to that in that did in Disney movies or movies that are supposed to be made for kids that it's. Oh, this Encanto movie that they have.

And it's like the main character, she's goofy and quirky and has this curly hair. And then the pretty one, she's has the straight hair or whatever. But so I just thought it was so cool seeing this girl who had this situation, she couldn't find dolls that had her but she didn't just say, Oh this sucks.

It's so man, the world is terrible. She went out and created something. And. I just love that and I think it's so we always have a choice when we're in a situation that feels like this is this is bad. This sucks. There's nothing here for me to see it as Oh, I guess that's how the world is or to see it as This is an opportunity for me to do something

Kate Parker: Yeah, I think she was seven years old when she started her company and was just like, mom, I'm making dolls like this for other girls she had said, in what she wrote in the book, that she just didn't feel, she felt like her hair wasn't pretty, she didn't want other girls to feel like that because, there's no dolls that show that Zoe is her name and the dolls are just beautiful, curly me.

she's literally changing the world. I try to make books for what I would have wanted when I was younger, but Zoe is making dolls for things that she would have wanted when she's younger, but she's 11.

I just have so much, hope for this. I know people speak about the negativity of the younger generations, but having shot so many thousands of kids over the last 15 years, I'm very hopeful.

at least the kids I get to see. have their stuff together they're kind and they're trying to change the world they're not hung up on the, same that older generations are.

They're much more open minded. Yeah, they're on their phones a lot and yes, they are watching stupid tick tock videos, but so my think there's a lot of positivity that's coming forth that gets overlooked sometimes.

Andy Earle: I am really curious where you find the people that you're shooting in these books.

You mentioned this pitch fest where kids are like pitching these business ideas, the social consciousness, which Sounds awesome. What a great place to take your kids and have them see other kids who are doing awesome things, meet other kids who are, trying to create something and do something positive

Where else do you look when you're trying to find kids who are really doing something awesome?

Kate Parker: So I, when I start a book, I generally put like a call out on social media, looking for this book specifically, like girls who are using their voices or raising their voices. But I don't want to limit it to finding girls that their moms follow me on social media or, that keeps it fairly narrow.

I'm a commercial photographer as well. So I travel a lot for work. usually if I'm traveling to, cities I will make a call out in that area. Look at schools or like boys and girls clubs or girls on the run I shot the pitch fest in Berkeley in California, and that was.

Through I had worked with title 9, the clothing company, and there was an organization called the practice space, which uses speech to help encourage girls. So I got 10 amazing girls with amazing stories all in Berkeley, which was really cool. Because the culture in Berkeley, California is distinctly different than the culture in Atlanta, Georgia, where I live.

So I want to show that as much diversity in the books as possible.

Andy Earle: what does that look like? what's the differences in Atlanta?

Kate Parker: Berkeley, it's just I think because culture is like foundationally like that, so much protest and so many, it's so much.

It's just, I think the girls at pitch fast were there also the girls who sued the US government were there. And they went to Berkeley high school. And I think just maybe that's what they had been taught, like their parents were there because they were, I think it's just Maybe that's the ingrained as part of the culture there, which I think is so cool.

And then in the South, it's just a little bit more maybe potentially we just like abide by the status quo and you speak out in a little I don't know. I think things are changing, but here I found some amazing girls. But there was, it wasn't as necessarily like, I guess those girls in Berkeley were pretty much.

Like unicorns that they're, suing the U. S. government and making those changes. But I think everyone that thing is like, everyone across the board. Is making a change and using their courage and using their voice in their own unique way, whether it's a large. Hiring the lawyer and suing our government, or if it's even it's something as small as extending an invitation for someone to sit next to them. I think they're all. They all require courage. They're all worthy. And I wanted that mix of This giant scream and like a small whisper because they all add up.

Andy Earle: Yeah. And they might not feel attainable to do something big, but that doesn't mean you can't do anything.

Get started. It can start today. I noticed a theme too of a number of stories in the book of girls who were wanting to get involved in something, but there wasn't a girl's version of it or play a sport, but there's only a boy's team for lacrosse or rugby or whatever it is.

And so how do you navigate that or do that? Maybe just play anyway.

Kate Parker: Yeah, I think that's awesome. I think like the girls, like generally people will tip me off cause they know I'm shooting stuff or they know like my past work and they're like, you have to see this girl. And yeah, there's a girl in the book that was the only girl on her boys lacrosse team, a girl that was one of the only girls that wrestled in her high school.

And I just love so much that it takes a lot of courage for the girls, but it also takes like a parent just removing a barrier to be like, oh, you want to wrestle like your brothers when you're five years old. Okay. They just say, okay, instead of being like, no,

Like anything on these girls except to clear the path for them. So I just think that's so great. And just you're being your kids cheerleader, which I think is awesome. And one girl in the book who is a wrestler was, fourth in the state of Georgia and she wrestled against the boys.

So clearly a very talented kid and I don't know, I just feel like if her dad had been like, no, wanted to try something else, she would have really missed out It's so huge and it gives, our girls so much confidence

I always feel like whatever I can do as a parent to help foster whatever passions my girls have is a big job for me.

Andy Earle: Wow. Especially something physical like that. And you're like hanging in there and holding your own at the same level as boys. It's I don't know, that feels so empowering to me.

And I think there's so many ways in which we separate because we have this. Cultural narrative that's oh, no, girls are fragile and weak and we better give them their own team and their own league and keep everything separate. But It's not really true. It doesn't have to be that way necessarily.

Kate Parker: Yeah, you're the same weight, especially in wrestling. You're the same weight class. I'm not a wrestler, but seems to be almost like a chess game. Like you're thinking four moves ahead and, it's a lot of mental stuff in there too.

Clearly. This girl is pretty good.

Andy Earle: I love that.

Kate, thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing the secrets of your photography and also about all these incredible stories that you've pulled together. It's been really powerful.

Kate Parker: Oh, thank you for having me.

Andy Earle: I highly recommend people to grab a copy of the new book, Force of Nature.

Where can we send people to find out more about what you're doing to follow updates from you to hear about this new book, maybe as you're working on it over the next year.

Kate Parker: Yeah, my Instagram is probably the best place. It's Kate T Parker. Update that fairly frequently,

Andy Earle: We're here with Kate Parker talking about how to raise kids who raise their voices and speak up about issues that are important to them. And we're not done yet. Here's a look at what's coming up in the second half of the show.

Kate Parker: Because they're not finding self esteem from boys or friends, they're finding their self esteem from these things that they have invested time in and they love and that. they're good at.

My girls say this in a negative way. They're like, oh, they're such a try hard. I'm like, there's absolutely nothing wrong with trying hard. Being enthusiastic about things is the best thing in the world, and making fun of people that are enthusiastic about things is the worst.

I think enthusiasm and passion are the best things, and trying to encourage that, especially in our teenage girls, is huge.

If I'm shooting like a teen or something, I usually station somebody off to behind me and I'll just say, talk to your friend, look at your dad, look at so and and then I'll be like, don't laugh. Please don't laugh. I don't want you to laugh at all. And then like inevitably somebody's laughing and it's a real laugh and they're not looking at the camera and it's off to the, it feels more real.

Andy Earle: Want to hear the full interview? Sign up for a subscription today. It's completely affordable and your membership supports the work we do here at Talking to Teens. You can now sign up directly through Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.