Talking To Teens: Expert Tips for Parenting Teenagers

Andy Earle: You are listening to Talking to Teens, where we speak with leading experts from a variety of disciplines about the art and science of parenting teenagers. I'm your host, Andy Earle.

We're here today with Tiffany Jewell, talking about how the school system is inherently racist and what teenagers and parents can do about it.

We find ourselves in a school system today in which students of color are more than twice as likely to be suspended and expelled.

They're less likely to be put into advanced classes and given opportunities for support and mentorship.

They're more likely to be searched and disciplined.

And the curriculum that's being taught focuses largely on the works, discoveries, and history of White men.

What can we do as parents trying to raise conscious teenagers in this biased system?

Tiffany Jewell is an anti bias, anti racist educator. She's the author of the number one New York Times bestseller, This Book is Anti Racist, and the new book, Everything I Learned About Racism I Learned in School.

Tiffany, thank you so much for coming back to the Talking to Teens podcast.

Tiffany Jewell: Thank you for having me again.

Andy Earle: Yes, congratulations on the new book, Everything I Learned About Racism I Learned in School. Excited to talk with you about it.

Tiffany Jewell: Thank you, I'm happy to be here.

Andy Earle: After your previous book, This Book is Anti Racist, what was the impetus behind this new book focused on school and calling out all of the ways in which institutions around education are imbued with racism?

Tiffany Jewell: This book is looking deeper at the institution we're a part of for 20 years of our lives. I'm an educator. I've been an educator for 20 years.

And so it's the institution I'm most a part of, and I've seen it like different levels. I was asked to do a keynote for a conference, the ed collab conference, in 2020, during the pandemic. And I was talking about my schooling story to a bunch of educators.

And at one point I was like, pretty much everything I learned about racism I learned in school. And we were all like, Whoa, hold up. Let's think about that. And so I had to like process through that. And I started thinking more about my story and writing about it. And that's what you have now on your hands.

Andy Earle: So many threads all trace back to these early years. Things are just normalized and perpetuated through the school system in so many ways. A lot of data in the book.

And one that I thought was interesting is looking at Black students being so much more likely to be suspended or expelled from school. We have about 15 percent enrollment, but about 39 percent of the students who are expelled are Black.

Wow what is going on there?

Tiffany Jewell: Because it's super disproportionate when you look at it. You're like, hold up. It's just like the when you look at the statistics of people who are in prisons too. And what is happening is there's two things. There's teacher bias and prejudice against students based on stereotypes that we've absorbed and learned. About 80 percent of the teaching population is White.

And so teachers are often heightened to people who are not the same as them. And so they're over policing students when they don't need to be. And then we have school policies that I even think of like in my own kids school, middle school, like they were telling me how one of their friends got detention because they didn't have sneakers for PE.

And so like we're looking at race and class. When you have these rules and traditions and policies in schools, the adults might feel like they're making things safer. When they're not. Kids get suspended because they're not dressed properly for PE. But they also maybe didn't even realize what day it was.

Or kids get detention for talking back to a teacher, not recognizing to the teacher, that's how they communicate in their families. And so there's all these different things put in place that ensure that Black kids in particular, and Black and Brown kids in general, are being suspended and getting detention at a much higher rate that is extremely disproportionate to the population of students in school.

Andy Earle: And so many things like being late to class or not having the right pencil or shoes or something where it's also a judgment call. It's yeah, that's a rule, but also then it comes down to the teacher to be like, it's okay. You're fine this time. Or no, down to the office. There's no exceptions to this rule. Those gray areas where so much prejudice comes in.

Tiffany Jewell: And there's just a lot of mistrust in schools. Because of this culture of lots of rules. And because of the pandemic, students don't trust school in the same way anymore. They don't know if it's going to shut down again. There's this level of mistrust that also heightens people feeling unsafe, whether you're an adult, even though you have lots of power, or you're a child.

Andy Earle: You talk about magnet schools in the book and got me thinking about magnet schools in a new way. Aren't magnet schools a good thing? It's a school that's good at stuff. So kids want to go there. How would magnet schools have anything to do with racism?

Tiffany Jewell: I wrote about magnet schools because I went to a magnet school and I didn't realize magnet schools were anything different or special as I was a student there.

It was our neighborhood school. We walked there. And a lot of my friends from school lived in the neighborhood too. And I thought, cause I'm from upstate New York. So I thought, and I learned as I was growing up that we were well past Brown versus Board of Education. We were doing great. Our schools were just fine.

And then as I was researching magnet schools, and in particular in New York State, I was like, wait a minute, magnet schools were a solution on how to integrate schools, because school closures didn't work, and volunteer busing didn't work, so they needed another way to do it. And in the late 70s and early 1980s magnet schools are popping up all over the country.

And so they're not a bad thing. It's another way of schooling. Our school's specialty was math and science. So I got extra math and science classes. And as a kid I loved that. I was a math and science kid through and through. So it totally met my need. And we had kids busing. But it was a shock to learn that it was a part of this integration experiment in the eighties.

And now I talk to kids and I'm like, schools are still really segregated today. What's that about? And the thing with magnet schooling too, is now they're more intense. There's big application processes for some. You might live in the neighborhood of a school, but you might not be able to get in.

And I think neighborhood schools are important, especially for families that don't have transportation. You want to be able to be a part of your school community. And magnet schools are really beautiful. But we have to reassess if they're doing what we intended them to do, which is integrate our schools and bring lots of different people together.

Andy Earle: I hadn't really thought of how hard it is to integrate schools when the communities in which they are built are not integrated. Some kids have to go to school, not in their community if we want to really have integrated schools.

Tiffany Jewell: When you look at like the history of school integration we put so much of the onus on children instead of addressing the neighborhoods, redlining, and deep systems in our communities and cities and towns.

We're still almost putting it on children and teachers. What if we created more affordable housing in this neighborhood? Because we need affordable housing everywhere in this country. Nobody wants to address those.

Andy Earle: A theme throughout the book that so often we're putting the onus on people or the individuals or the groups of people rather than on the structure of the system itself. Looking at, we got to move the kids around to different schools, rather than why are the communities so segregated?

Another way that is happening is with terminology. And you talk about this term, the achievement gap and how this is another way of putting this, the problem is the kids, they're not achieving enough. And reframing that with this idea of calling it the opportunity gap instead of the achievement gap. I thought it was really powerful.

Tiffany Jewell: Language is so important. And if we don't understand exactly what we're talking about, like we all have our own understandings and definitions, it gets really confusing.

So that's why I do a lot of defining in my books. I'm like, let's just all make sure we're talking about the same thing at the same time.

Andy Earle: Something else you dive into is the idea of tracking. Putting kids on different teams based on how maybe they did on one exam really early on, or some showed some sort of promise in some area and putting them into different tracks. What? Why does that factor so much into your book?

Tiffany Jewell: It was a huge part of my school. So my elementary school was predominantly Black and Brown. And we were a pretty close community. A lot of us lived in the neighborhood. With middle school, it was still our neighborhood middle school, but it was about a mile away. And two other schools fed into the middle school. And the two other schools that fed into it were predominantly White.

And so it was my first time being in classrooms where White kids were in the majority, which felt like a shock. And I was tracked into team one, which was the college track. Someone somewhere was like, this kid gets to go to college. One of my classmates was in team three, and they're like, this kid, maybe they'll get to work on cars one day or something.

And being tracked into team one, I was in a class of almost all White kids, and we had the nicest hallway that had all this like sunshine. We went on a ton of field trips that my other friends didn't go, so I was just like really clear the distinctions between the different teams.

I felt like there were things that were unfair, but I didn't know why. I also didn't think I was smarter than friends in team two and team three, because I wasn't. But, someone somewhere decided and maybe who, who knows why, I don't think I was even a great test taker.

I think it's because I'm like light and we were raised by our White mom. And our district some at some point labeled us as White. And so that could have been why.

It's technically illegal today to track kids, but we have ability groupings where we group kids. Reading groups. Here are the kids who are reading chapter books, and here are the kids who are earlier readers, and here are the kids who are learning phonics. And those kids tend to stay together . And then the kids who are reading chapter books in second grade get pushed into taking advanced placement courses or IB courses.

So it's still the same. We just maybe call it different. But it allows for us to have this divide between people. And it's often based on race and class again. What if everybody had the same opportunities? What if everybody in my middle school had gone on the same field trips?

And we all had classes in different hallways so we could experience the sunshine? Or the darkness in the back hall? I think school would have been a little different and maybe less of a shock for some of us.

Andy Earle: It makes me think back to that term, the opportunity gap and how we take kids coming in who have already had a huge different gap of opportunities.

And then now we're going to take the ones who have had the most opportunities before even starting school, and we're going to then put them on a track where they're going to have the best opportunities to continue their education. And the ones who have already had the least opportunities and put them in the low track where they are going to continue to have less opportunities and be less challenged.

And we're going to expect less from them. And we're only just perpetuating exactly what is already there.

Tiffany Jewell: And thinking of teenagers, the tracking becomes really clear in middle school and high school, especially as you get pushed towards one direction of college or not.

And I always think about the emotional lives of kids too and what does that mean for the kid who's from the school that is more under resourced but is doing great but then they don't get to be in the college track because of who they are and where they come from? What does that tell them in their life?

Andy Earle: Getting to sixth grade, that first year of middle school was when it was first, there's different levels of math. And are you in the advanced math or the lower math? Or even are you into algebra? And math was super easy for me because I'm like, went to science camp every summer. My parents just did multiplication tables with me for fun. Now we put me on the high math track, but it's not nothing inherent about me.

I've had all these opportunities to practice this that so many people haven't had.

Tiffany Jewell: Exactly.

Andy Earle: So where do you think this leaves this leaves families today who find themselves in this kind of system or see this happening in your community, in your school?

Tiffany Jewell: I think it's really hard to see when you're in it. My oldest is now in middle school and I'm not in the school like I used to be with elementary. And so I don't where he is in the school compared to other kids. Which is nice and a relief, but also I want to know how his peers are doing too. Especially his Black and Brown peers. How are they doing in school? How is school supporting them and creating a safe environment so they can learn instead of just continuing to do what's always been done and push Black and Brown kids aside and poor kids aside and be like you will go to the vocational school, we'll decide these for you.

So I'm curious what happens when they're in eighth grade and the question of which high school to go to comes up. Because we have a vocational school and we have the traditional school. And so I'm curious if that is open to everybody, or if some kids get pushed. There are things I have to learn as a parent and a caregiver, and as an educator and author. Whenever I talk to kids in middle school and high school, the tracking part is shocking to them.

But they also see it, and they know it. They'll be like, Oh yeah, I do all these extracurriculars, or I'm an AP, and other kids will be like, I'm not. Or teachers will come up to me later and be like, I really don't know if this kid will be able to read your book because they're on an IEP.

And I'm like, there's an audio book. There's many different forms to read a book. Why should we discount them because of their abilities and disabilities? It's fascinating the way people talk about kids and what they know.

Andy Earle: You write about fear in the book. And I found that interesting. It comes up a number of times throughout the book as a tool that's used to keep kids under the thumb of the system.

Tiffany Jewell: Fear is the driving force of the culture of White dominance.

We have this undercurrent of fear. Teachers being afraid of students. We see kindergartners, little Black boy kindergartners in particular, and Black girls, getting suspended from school because the adult felt fear around them.

Fear is one of the big reasons kids get put in detention, especially as they get older too. And then we have the fear of the adult. And we see this with parents rights groups and people wanting to ban books. The fear that my children are going to learn more than me, or they're going to see the world differently. That is a huge fear for folks. There's that fear of anything that's a little different.

The fear of the unknown. It drives so much, especially when you look at policies put in place. I was just talking to somebody in Nashville, Tennessee, and she was telling me how the government there is looking at not accepting any federal funding.

So they don't have to meet the standards of the country, which are pretty low, by the way. Because there's a fear, right? What if the national government changes things and our students have to learn about Black history in a different way, or we have to honor who they are identity wise, if we have to have bathrooms for kids who are trans and non binary. That's such a fear for a lot of adults. And fear is often linked to power.

A lot of adults like to have power over young folks and children. And all of those fears have allowed for us to have a schooling system that hasn't changed a lot since I went to school 20 and 30 years ago. And I'm working in schools now, and there are some things I'm just like, wow, how is this still the same?

Like, why are kids still reading Hatchet? I know a lot of people like Hatchet. But you can't tell me there aren't any books about survival with Black and Brown characters? Any that haven't been written after 1986, even with White characters?

Andy Earle: You talk about the canon of what we're supposed to study and read. And so much of it is old and not relevant anymore. And so not diverse. Why are we clinging to these being the things that we're supposed to read? When there's so much better stuff that we could be reading.

Tiffany Jewell: My degree is in English Literature, and I think of what I didn't read in college. Tony Morrison or James Baldwin. I took American literature classes. What was that about? Why did I have to read all of these on my own? And it's because it's the way it's always been and because most of those books are not in the literary canon.

Andy Earle: But we read about what white authors wrote about race and call that okay.

Tiffany Jewell: And also the canon's a construction, so we can deconstruct it and create a new one. It doesn't have to be set.

Andy Earle: What do you think that we should do as parents if we see those same basic books or topics being taught in schools? How do we push our kids, even if it has to be on their own to expand beyond that?

Tiffany Jewell: I am one of those parents who will just send books into school all the time.

Hey, I have all these books for you. Collecting them from the little free libraries or buying them or getting them from publishers. What I know from working with lots of teachers is they want these new books. They want the new things. They want the lessons. They want all the things that go with it. And they're never given time to read through them or create new lessons.

And so as an author and an educator caregiver person, I'm doing that in our district, writing lessons for some of the teachers and offering them. And for caregivers, it's a lot. I'm not expecting anybody to be in schools the same way that I am, because I'm doing grant funded work and I'm an educator myself. But if you read a book with your kid, share just a simple email to the teacher. Hey, I just read this book and it's about X, Y, and Z.

And it could fit in nicely to the unit you're doing in the fall. Anything to help the teacher. It could be really beautiful. Or teachers will often have a wish list of books. Or if there's books you've read or that you want to see at schools, ask your public library to order them.

That way the teachers can access them through public libraries too. Because teachers just don't have the time, or they don't get paid enough to do all of the work. And so they often will have the lessons somebody wrote 20 years ago and they're like, okay, this is what I have time to do.

Andy Earle: You just keep working with what's been handed down because having to reinvent it is so much work. But I think what you're talking about also is such a level of engagement. Of knowing what unit is happening and what is coming up and being in touch with the teachers and having a relationship.

Tiffany Jewell: I'm probably an overly engaged parent because I'm friends with a lot of the teachers in their school and I work in the schools. But a lot of caregivers don't know that we can be engaged in different ways.

Schools, when they shut down during the pandemic things changed. But caregivers can still go into schools and volunteer. And sometimes it's just asking a teacher, what do you need me to do for you? How can I help you? It could be a really like nice way to offer time or energy.

It might even just be like, Oh, I'm looking to do a field trip at the botanical garden and I don't know who to contact. And you're like, I can look that up for you. Kind of thing.

Andy Earle: Tiffany, thank you so much for coming back on the show today. It's been an honor to have you here. And congratulations again on the new book. It's called Everything I Learned About Racism I Learned In School. And I highly encourage people to check it out. There's really powerful essays throughout the book from all kinds of different authors with powerful stories that go through the same phases that you're going through of elementary, middle, high school, college.

And sharing their experiences, which are different than yours in a lot of ways, but also similar. It's thought provoking. It's important. And I definitely encourage people to check it out. Where can we send people to maybe follow updates from you or to stay up to date on what you're working on?

Tiffany Jewell: My website is my name. And I am on Instagram under Tiffany M as in Mary Jewell, and that's usually where I post. Updates when I'm feeling. I try to stay off social media. I'm not super successful at that though.

Andy Earle: Thanks again for coming on the show

Tiffany Jewell: And thanks for having me.

We're here with Tiffany Jewell, talking about how the school system is inherently racist and what parents and teens can do about it. And we're not done yet. Here's a look at what's coming up in the second half of the show.

And this is a comment I get from kids all the time, what do I do if a friend says a racist joke? Teenagers across the country ask me this question, because it happens all the time.

Andy Earle: And a study from the Department of Education found schools with populations of more than 50 percent of students of the global majority were four times more likely to conduct suspicionless searches using drug sniffing dogs.

Tiffany Jewell: I love meeting with high school kids in particular and being like, do you know your rights in school? And I did this the other day with their teachers and their principals in the room. And the teachers and principals don't know all of the rights too.

I wish I had spoke up.

I looked at my professors like, this person's in charge of the class, they know what they're doing. But I know what I'm doing as well, and what I need. And I wish I had spoken up and said that's not fair.

School could be a place that could be so joyful and empowering. So I'm an optimist, too. I know we can do better.

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