Talking To Teens: Expert Tips for Parenting Teenagers

Andy:
Can you talk about your background and what inspired you to write this book?

Gregory:
Sure. I am an addiction counselor. I took a master's degree in psychology and through a series of what I now see is sort of the hand of the divine, it pushed me into just working with addiction recovery. And I worked for many years in different, what we call modalities of treatment, whether it's like a residential program or a wilderness program, there's outpatient program. So I was working in all those settings and really was seeing some miraculous things happening in people. And eventually I evolved to open my own one-on-one practice. And the people that naturally came to my practice were young men, guys, around 20 years old, 22, 18, they were the ones that were coming. For the first year or so, I was very surprised that even though these guys were coming, they were not really transforming. I had seen when they were in structure, when they were in those rehabs. And the ones that had changed, they ended up going back to their old habits.

Gregory:
So I was doing that for a while and I was getting very frustrated and bored because for me to put all the hard work into something and see no result. It's terrible. So I did that and I just couldn't figure it out and the... I couldn't figure out what do I need to do to get through to these guys? And I tried everything I knew and finally, out of a mix of boredom, frustration, I just said, you know what, we're going to leave the office. We're going to just go outside. I don't know what we're going to do, but we're not going to sit here, again, in these couches and chairs with all the artwork on the wall. No, no. We're going to go out, okay. And I started to do that and I don't know, something felt. I really don't know why I kept going.

Gregory:
Maybe because there was, again, there's just nothing else to really try. Well, I did that for a year, two, three years and I started to evolve a very deep method of working with young men in action in the world, in the social world. And I started seeing those changes again in these young men, they were going from being isolated, depressed, using drugs, jobless, hopeless, and were actually finding their way. Their skin started to have a color. Their eyes started to have a sparkle. And I did that for a while, like I said, three, four years, and then, just on a whim, I said, I think it's time to try to write about this. What are we actually doing? Because I really wasn't clear. Intuitively, I was doing it, but I wasn't clear. I couldn't never explain it to you or to anybody else. So that's how we started with the book. And it was very difficult to come up with what was actually happening.

Gregory:
But I feel, it took four years, it took five editors, it took what it took. And it took a lot of heavy lifting to the point where I can say to you, listen, if you read this book, it's going to give you a window into how myself and these young men were achieving the results that everybody's looking for.

Andy:
You write that living alongside another man is crucial for male development. Seeing another man in motion, engaged in a task or interacting with the social world, all this activates your own image of yourself and who you might be. I think this is a pivotal kind of piece of your method and it's something that I really resonate with also because I think people talk about mentors a lot and the importance of mentors. But what I feel like a lot of times what's happening with these, especially men, young men, is they lack a vision for their life. They feel like they're stuck, but what's the problem is that they're thinking small. They don't have this strong vision for what they want to accomplish and really who they want to be in the world because I think we talk about finding yourself or finding your identity, but I don't think that that's really what happens.

Andy:
I think we create ourselves and we create our identity and we create the person that we want to be and that's a lot of work. And you have to be motivated to go out and do the work to create yourself. And you have to have a vision to be working towards. Yeah, to say, hey, that's how I want to be. I want to be like that guy. That guy is awesome. I want to do that. And a lot of times what happens is that these kids are just surrounded by people that aren't inspiring them or the men that are in their life are not very engaged or just aren't bad-ass or something. And they're not inspired by that and they don't have a vision. And so I think I like what you write about seeing other men in motion, engaged in a task and interacting with the social world. And I wonder how as parents, we can sort of help create that for our kids.

Gregory:
Well, let me start by just saluting you for selecting that passage because for me that was the thing that was most like... It just blew my mind that instead of talking at or with a young man, engaging his rational mind. Hey, Gregory, what do you think you might like to do with your life? Gregory, what's holding you back from living your life? Gregory. Yeah, it's just all, I don't know.

Andy:
“Whatever.” “My parents.”

Gregory:
Exactly. It's all that is aimed at the rational mind. And most, a lot of therapy approaches are doing that. What I found most effective to inspire and ignite a young man's vision for his own life is simply this, spend time living alongside of him and show him how it's done. Don't teach him, demonstrate it. Demonstrate it consistently. I would go month after month with these young men and their parents would be like, did you talk to him about his gaming?

Gregory:
Did you talk to him about his... how he's smoking weed? Did you talk about this? Did you? And my answer is no, no, no, and no. All I do is I just, I live in front of them and I show them how a man can love life from the depths of his being. And eventually, this kid who's living the shitty life is going to look at the man that's living a great life and something deep inside of him is going to be like, I got to do that.

Andy:
Yeah, I'm going to do that.

Gregory:
It's not even conscious. I want to do that, right. So there's a whole system of the brain designed to do just that. It's called the mirror neuron system. So we known this for a while, right? Show me who you hang out with and I'll tell you who you are. The people that you're closest to, that's who you're going to end up being like. So this is all deeply... it's hardwired into us. Now, the other question that you said, what can parents do? Again, don't talk at your kids. I would imagine that most of the parents that you work with have had so many talks that they're just literally... And I know that feeling as a parent where you're like, your whole body. Your head feels like a thermometer that's about to explode, right? And you're just trying to talk sense into them. Meanwhile, what are you showing your kid? Are you demonstrating a great life or are you showing them that if you work as hard as mom and dad, you'll eventually have some kid that you have to lecture.

Andy:
Right. Who frustrates you and that you don't like hanging around, yeah.

Gregory:
Who frustrates you and you are, instead of going out for that run or hitting the Peloton or going for a hike, you're here lecturing your kid and worrying about your kid. That's not going to work. The only way you're going to be able to influence your child is if you yourself are living the truth that you are seeking to teach them. And I would argue that actions speak louder than words.

Andy:
Especially with boys, yeah, I think. Girls, they'll talk to you a little bit, but boys, you got to do things with them, show them, yeah. Another thing you say is that the trick was finding the ordinary act that would reach the particular individual. With Devin, a practitioner of Jiu-Jitsu, it was easy, we wrestled. Scott loved basketball, so we joined the gym and played, but it was not always that straightforward. So how do you find the activity that ignites someone?

Gregory:
That's the Miyagi mentoring, good old Mr. Miyagi. How did Miyagi find the things in life that were going to teach Daniel what he wanted to learn? How did he choose to paint the fence, to sand the floor, to wash the cars. You have to use what life is giving you. And honestly, that's where you kind of have to have a good intuition. And the chapter after all this in the book, I think I give a really good example of a client that I worked with, where we were able to find that act. And for this young man, it was surfing.

Gregory:
And you see, the solution, it's going to be in life. So don't complicate it. It's got to be somewhere within the world that you inhabit. All right. So I don't know if this fully answers your question, but it's... you have to use your intuition. You have to know the guy that you're working with, and then you just have to kind of be attuned to what life is presenting to you.

Andy:
And I think it was a good example in the book, because you had to kind of do some detective work to figure out what he was going to be interested in. And it wasn't just like that he was already into surfing or that you said, hey, what about surfing? He was like, okay, sounds good. It was like, you were kind of suggesting things and talking to him about things. And when you mentioned surfing, he didn't just immediately dismiss it, or there was just a slightly different reaction in him that you could tell, maybe he was kind of a little interested in it. And then that led you to keep asking him more about surfing. Well, what about surfing? And pushing it. And it wasn't just immediate thing. It took some work to kind of even convince him to go and try it with you. And then you went and found a really cool surfing instructor who would be like that great example to show him a possible vision for his life. Yeah.

Gregory:
And that in the system that I used, when I look back on the years that I was working with these young men, I found that I was really walking them through stages of development. The first stage was devoted to bonding and connecting, right. I would, I would create enough of a bond with you where I could say, hey, let's go out to the world and start exploring. So do we have enough of a bond where you trust me that we can go explore and try different things? We can try Jiu-Jitsu and surfing. I've earned enough trust that we start to explore. And once we've explored enough, that's when we have to select the road that we're going to engage in, okay.

Andy:
That's cool. Yeah.

Gregory:
And the key, just to complete this, let's say I was working with a guy who I knew how to kind of have a knack for writing. Like he liked reading, he liked writing and I'm like maybe we could take a workshop on writing or like six week workshop. I would do my homework. I would find somebody like you, Andy. Because, no offense, I'm not going to take him to some kind of, I don't know, somebody that I didn't think the young man could kind of be like, all right, this dude's cool.

Andy:
Yeah, this guy's cool.

Gregory:
I can get that. This guy is cool.

Andy:
Yeah, totally.

Gregory:
That's fine. So I would do my homework and then I would call you and I'd say, “listen, I'm going to be bringing this guy.”

Andy: “
I've got this kid,” yeah.

Gregory: “
I got this guy.” And in that sense, we're creating a community of people that can hopefully ignite. But that's the key, you have to find the people that are going to be agents of inspiration.

Andy:
Yeah. And then you kind of recruit them to help you. And it's like, you are not necessarily an expert in whatever the thing is that you find that you kid is going to want to do, but you can still find the right people. And yeah, it was like music for me when I was in high school and my mom would find me these really cool different guitar teachers and piano teachers and people that could just be a good influence on me. And that was really effective, I think.

Gregory:
Yeah. And if I'm doing the writing class, myself, the young man, we're doing your writing class, it's true, I'm not the expert. But what I am an expert at is throwing myself into things boldly. So there's again that mirror effect where a man is going to see how I approach a writing class. How do I?

Andy:
Yeah, and how seriously you take it and.

Gregory:
Yeah. How much fun do I have? How do I deal with writer's blog? How do I deal with this? How do I deal with that? And then afterwards, we're going for lunch, we're talking about the experience or something like that. And that's the key. Again, it's not that we don't talk to young men. We do, of course. But what I'm saying is it's better to share an action with them and talk afterwards.

Andy:
Yeah, right.

Gregory:
So, how well is it for you?

Andy:
Almost like a debrief. Well, that was crazy. And when that thing happened, oh my gosh. Yeah.

Gregory:
Bingo. And in that way, all the work, we're teaching them how to engage with and enjoy life because it's very simple. If you do not know how to enjoy life, there is no way you're going to stop gaming and using drugs and isolating. Those things are your comfort. Those are your relief, those are your forms of enjoyment. So unless I can teach them how to enjoy life, I'm not going to be effective in helping them change.

Andy:
Yeah, let's show them a better alternative, yeah. And you write on page 36, that by two people facing the world alongside one another, instead of only facing each other, they share an experience in the social world and create a special bond. I'm amazed by the healing that happens when I use this alongside a technique with an emerging man, getting him into action and exploring the social world together with me. And that's exactly what you're talking about and it's that combination of what you were just saying, finding the right writing workshop, if that's what your kid is into and then doing it alongside the kid and kind of modeling just how to jump into it and how to do it. And then that activity then gives you a chance to talk and discuss the thing. And then you can get them to open up.

Gregory:
That's right. And so the social world is a living, breathing organism. And we are so small as men in comparison to that. So when we face that together, it's a huge act of humility. We're entering something greater than both of us. So we're equal. I'm not greater than they are. We're both facing this together. And the beauty of that also is that all the work that we're doing is eventually helping them to do the very thing that we want anyway, which is to build a life in the social world. Imagine two men entering the social world for a year or two. And what happens over time is it starts with a little bit of a dip in your toe in the water. And then you put your, both your feet in the water. And then you go in the water. And then you cannonball, you swim, wind surf, you this.

Gregory:
And then after those two years, you say, bro, look at what you did? You went from this timid, isolated, broken, disconnected dude sitting on the beach to you have this whole life in the water. Isn't that wonderful? Of course there are times in all of our lives. I can't speak for you, I can speak for me, when life gets the best of you. It throws a haymaker and it knocks you down. And you want to give up. Well, the beauty of this method is you, because you're building a life, you're less likely to give up in that moment because you've seen how much you built. Versus if all the gains are in, let's say a therapy office, and you tell me, Gregory, but we've been meeting for two years and you're so much better at talking about your feelings. Who cares about that? What does that mean to me, right? I want something tangible and concrete. That's what we were... you were talking about early, men want to create a life.